Islamic State kills Another US hostage

[CTID1988]

Strange that they want to come back now they are getting a spanking, but they was ok staying when they were murdering civilians...

When were they murdering civilians?

 

[Tanzeylee]

Strange that they want to come back now they are getting a spanking, but they was ok staying when they were murdering civilians...

When were they murdering civilians?

Let me think about that,


All the fucking time out there...

 

[CTID1988]

Strange that they want to come back now they are getting a spanking, but they was ok staying when they were murdering civilians...

When were they murdering civilians?

Let me think about that,


All the fucking time out there...

You're getting mixed up with the guys beheading journos and the people fighting assad

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

no, we may have crossed wires, I understand fully that whilst I don't like it (not one for violent measures), there is a understandable reason for an uprising and those who specifically fight against oppressive government forces, and who are not at all associated with the many rebel groups, even pre-this IS situation, who have committed atrocities against civilians, is something rather different. Maybe (though I think I was) I wasn't clear about seperating army from civilians, but I have been "trying" to make that distinction, and have referred to crimes against civilians in several posts.

You're full of shit then, you don't know what crimes these men have committed, if any. Men are held accountable for their own individual crimes, not simply being part of a group that committed crimes. Not that you even know what group they fought with. They might be a moderate FSA grouping for all you know.

then you're equally as full of shit, as you don't know either, yet want to allow them to come back without any recourse. If they want to come back, they can present themselves at the border and be questioned and scrutinised for what exactly they were up to. If they pass clean, they can go, if they don't, then they face the courts. Also, in this country, people are jailed for crimes they were complicit in or associated with, see:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/shorty-mchugh-murder-five-liverpool-7359203" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ol-7359203</a>

So being actively associated with a group whilst they committed crimes against civilians could well be seen as something worth prosecuting. So no, I'm not full of shit, I think I've been perfectly reasonable. If they are simply allowed back through the border any of them (or none of them) could reasonably be assumed to pose a threat to society, so it is not unreasonable that if they want to return, they should go through thorough questioning and protective measures because of the sensitivity of what they've been involved with, and if they've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide, they can go home. Now that, despite what you want to protest, is not "full of shit", and neither am I.

This last paragraph is interesting, do you mean crimes committed whilst they were present on the scene as part of a group, or crimes committed on the other side of the conflict region which they had minimum information about such events passed to them? They may even have joined up with one of the more moderate groups and become disillusioned with the conflict when the more extreme groups like ISIS came to the fore.

Should the entire US Army have been held account for the My Lai massacre?

 

[Tanzeylee]

When were they murdering civilians?

Let me think about that,


All the fucking time out there...

You're getting mixed up with the guys beheading journos and the people fighting assad

Arnt they one in the same...

 

[Skashion]

then you're equally as full of shit, as you don't know either, yet want to allow them to come back without any recourse. If they want to come back, they can present themselves at the border and be questioned and scrutinised for what exactly they were up to. If they pass clean, they can go, if they don't, then they face the courts. Also, in this country, people are jailed for crimes they were complicit in or associated with, see:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/shorty-mchugh-murder-five-liverpool-7359203" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ol-7359203</a>

So being actively associated with a group whilst they committed crimes against civilians could well be seen as something worth prosecuting. So no, I'm not full of shit, I think I've been perfectly reasonable. If they are simply allowed back through the border any of them (or none of them) could reasonably be assumed to pose a threat to society, so it is not unreasonable that if they want to return, they should go through thorough questioning and protective measures because of the sensitivity of what they've been involved with, and if they've done nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide, they can go home. Now that, despite what you want to protest, is not "full of shit", and neither am I.

I never said that though. So, yes, you are full of shit, whereas you've changed your tune, previously you said they can stay there or they can come back and go to prison and you now say they can come back if there's no proof they've done anything.

 

[Skashion]

And still am. By legitimate international pressure. Not freelance mercenary wannabe terrorists pretending to be fighting for god. And the idea that these scumbags were acting with any legitimacy in Syria is a nonsense.

As I said to JMW earlier, as long as you apply that logic i.e. that no-one should fight for anyone other than the official armed forces of their country, equally, I don't have a problem with that argument per se. I just don't agree with it. The great George Orwell fought against the Communists and fascists in Spain. History shows him to be correct. You and JMW would have imprisoned him.

He fought against the fascists in a Marxist brigade and soon became disillusioned with the realities of communism. History shows he should have listened to the advice of Henry Miller and stayed the fuck out of it. And yes I would have had him face trial.

I see you haven't actually read much Orwell, that's okay, but don't try to lecture someone who has. You're wrong quite simply, which should tell you not to rely on second or third hand information. He didn't become disillusioned with who he fought for at all. In fact, he says the opposite, that it awakened him to the belief that socialism could be realised:

Socialism means a classless society, or it means nothing at all. And it was here that those few months in the militia were valuable to me. For the Spanish militias, while they lasted, were a sort of microcosm of a classless society. In that community where no one was on the make, where there was a shortage of everything but no privilege and no bootlicking, one got, perhaps, a crude forecast of what the opening stages of socialism might be like. And, after all, instead of disillusioning me it deeply attracted me. The effect was to make my desire to see socialism established much more actual than it had been before.

POUM, the organisation he fought for, fought the fascists and the Soviet Union, they were socialists, but socialists of the anarcho-syndicalist mould who detested the authoritarianism of the Soviets and saw it as traitorous to real socialism. Orwell remained a socialist all his life.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

When were they murdering civilians?

Let me think about that,


All the fucking time out there...

You're getting mixed up with the guys beheading journos and the people fighting assad

I think you will have a hard time proving these guys were "good terrorists" rather than "bad terrorists". I'd like to know how you know what the fuck they've been up to!

 

[Skashion]

I think you will have a hard time proving these guys were "good terrorists" rather than "bad terrorists". I'd like to know how you know what the fuck they've been up to!

You'll have a hard time proving they're terrorists at all. I'd like to know how you know what the fuck they've been up to!

 

[Gelsons Dad]

I think you will have a hard time proving these guys were "good terrorists" rather than "bad terrorists". I'd like to know how you know what the fuck they've been up to!

You'll have a hard time proving they're terrorists at all. I'd like to know how you know what the fuck they've been up to!

came to fight the regime and instead we are involved in gang warfare.

By their own admission.