Israel-Palestine Conflict

Let me know when your ready to answer yesterdays reply to you.

Btw you still are visable to read when im not online. Youre still foed
Quote a post of mine where I've discussed what happened 1400 years ago and where I've defended the the kidnapping and killing of children and I'll answer your question. If you can't find any (which you won't), then I suggest you apologise.
 
Well you learn something new ever day, I didn`t know I was anti Jewish because I call a theft a theft and murder, well murder, at least now I can save a few bob sending my ex business partners birthday/Xmas cards, and certainly wont have them round for drinks & nibbles.

How Israel was formed is a mater of history, the ongoing land grabs and murders are current affairs.
That's not what your post implied. You made it sound like the formation of Israel was a land-grab by a bunch of European "crooks" (to use your word) which is what I took great exception to. And here's what you said in your post above from Wednesday. Let's take it bit by bit.

Again with the twisted argument, the Zionists were going long before the f*cking second world war started, who was it who took advantage and recruited Poles,Russian,Hungarian, ect on the grounds of religion from the millions of displaced and desperate persons wondering about Europe with no idea where to go because their world had been destroyed, the promise of a ticket to a home and food to eat was enough , they literally formed their own army and used it to take control and land grab an area of a far away land because they had a book that says "God promise the land to them " (Try that one down the land registry office an see how far it gets you).

"The Zionists recruited Poles, Russians....". You make it sound like these Zionists were some shadowy organisation (a standard antisemitic trope) that took advantage of these people. Well "the Zionists" were Poles, Russians etc who were reacting to the pervading culture of antisemitism across Eastern and Western Europe. My own great-grandparents fled to England to escape the, often violent, persecution they faced on a regular basis. So it's hardly surprising that a group of people cam to a conclusion that the only place they could be safe was one where they had self-determination. And also contrary to what you say, Zionism was a political movement not a religious one. In fact there was a lot of rancour between the (political) Zionists and the religious authorities, which still carries on in some ultra-religious enclaves.

"They literally formed their own army....". Again, this concept of a shadowy organisation forming a secret militia which then set out to take over this foreign land. Well, again, that's not how it happened. Jews who had set up kibbutzes and other settlements, on land legally acquired, were attacked by Arabs and formed self-defence units in the belief that the British had no desire to confront these Arab gangs. These groups became the Haganah, who formally organised in 1929 at the height of Arab riots. They were the ones with a few, unsophisticated weapons facing the much better armed Arabs. A more formal fighting group, the Palmach, was formed when it looked like the Afrika Corps might cross the Suez Canal and occupy Palestine. Clearly that would mean disaster for the Jews there so it was done to face an existential threat. That was actually welcomed by the British and funded by them as it gave them much needed back-up but when the threat subsided following El Alamein, they ordered it to disband and it went underground with units dispersed to various kibbutzes.

There was another brief period of collaboration after the war but then they decided to take on the British Army in order to further the cause of independence. It's funny how this is seen as a "terrorist campaign" by anti-Israelis yet those same people support Hamas as "freedom fighters" and say "But what else are they supposed to do?".


Why does the fact they survived the Camps, or just the war in general, somehow bestow the right to take someone elses homes or land, someone gave out the tanks and planes an told them it was ok because they as Jews had suffered they could spread the suffering to some other bugger and nick his land, with no comebacks because the locals were a simple people with little in the way of modern weapons.
This is a ridiculous statement (although not the worst one in this rant). In the 1948 War of Independence, Israel had no tanks or planes. In fact it was the far better-armed Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian & Iraqi armies who had the tanks, artillery and planes. It wasn't until the 1950's that Israel started to acquire significant numbers of tanks. And by and large it wasn't the local they were fighting but Arab armies and the Jordanian Arab Legion was a particularly formidable force. But the Israelis were fighting for their lives and very existence whereas the Arabs weren't.

Most Jews are not Zionist, if they were they would be living in Israel, they are native to the country they live in who happen to be Jewish by faith, we live in Manchester with a large Jewish community so you would be hard pressed not to know some on a personal level, never had anything but good experiences with anyone (Including my last two business partners) so the anti semantic tag is a non starter.
You saved the best till last I'm pleased to say. The overwhelming majority of Jews are Zionists. You don't have to live there to be one; you just have to support Israel's right to exist. That doesn't mean unconditional support for everything it does however and I've made it clear that I don't support everything it does. The settlements in the West Bank aren't right and the way it deals with the Palestinians there is, by and large, wrong as is many of its actions in and around Gaza. But when you've been subjected to rockets, suicide bombs and stabbings on a regular basis, I think they're entitled to take reasonable measures to ensure their citizens' security.

And then the cherry on the cake - I can't be antisemitic because I've had two Jewish business partners. Do me a favour pal.
 
That's not what your post implied. You made it sound like the formation of Israel was a land-grab by a bunch of European "crooks" (to use your word) which is what I took great exception to. And here's what you said in your post above from Wednesday. Let's take it bit by bit.



"The Zionists recruited Poles, Russians....". You make it sound like these Zionists were some shadowy organisation (a standard antisemitic trope) that took advantage of these people. Well "the Zionists" were Poles, Russians etc who were reacting to the pervading culture of antisemitism across Eastern and Western Europe. My own great-grandparents fled to England to escape the, often violent, persecution they faced on a regular basis. So it's hardly surprising that a group of people cam to a conclusion that the only place they could be safe was one where they had self-determination. And also contrary to what you say, Zionism was a political movement not a religious one. In fact there was a lot of rancour between the (political) Zionists and the religious authorities, which still carries on in some ultra-religious enclaves.

"They literally formed their own army....". Again, this concept of a shadowy organisation forming a secret militia which then set out to take over this foreign land. Well, again, that's not how it happened. Jews who had set up kibbutzes and other settlements, on land legally acquired, were attacked by Arabs and formed self-defence units in the belief that the British had no desire to confront these Arab gangs. These groups became the Haganah, who formally organised in 1929 at the height of Arab riots. They were the ones with a few, unsophisticated weapons facing the much better armed Arabs. A more formal fighting group, the Palmach, was formed when it looked like the Afrika Corps might cross the Suez Canal and occupy Palestine. Clearly that would mean disaster for the Jews there so it was done to face an existential threat. That was actually welcomed by the British and funded by them as it gave them much needed back-up but when the threat subsided following El Alamein, they ordered it to disband and it went underground with units dispersed to various kibbutzes.

There was another brief period of collaboration after the war but then they decided to take on the British Army in order to further the cause of independence. It's funny how this is seen as a "terrorist campaign" by anti-Israelis yet those same people support Hamas as "freedom fighters" and say "But what else are they supposed to do?".



This is a ridiculous statement (although not the worst one in this rant). In the 1948 War of Independence, Israel had no tanks or planes. In fact it was the far better-armed Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian & Iraqi armies who had the tanks, artillery and planes. It wasn't until the 1950's that Israel started to acquire significant numbers of tanks. And by and large it wasn't the local they were fighting but Arab armies and the Jordanian Arab Legion was a particularly formidable force. But the Israelis were fighting for their lives and very existence whereas the Arabs weren't.


You saved the best till last I'm pleased to say. The overwhelming majority of Jews are Zionists. You don't have to live there to be one; you just have to support Israel's right to exist. That doesn't mean unconditional support for everything it does however and I've made it clear that I don't support everything it does. The settlements in the West Bank aren't right and the way it deals with the Palestinians there is, by and large, wrong as is many of its actions in and around Gaza. But when you've been subjected to rockets, suicide bombs and stabbings on a regular basis, I think they're entitled to take reasonable measures to ensure their citizens' security.

And then the cherry on the cake - I can't be antisemitic because I've had two Jewish business partners. Do me a favour pal.

That's all well and good but can be over ridden by saying David Bernstein did a great job, Maureen Lipmann's adverts were great, the Jewish old fella who said he used to have curly hair on the day Aguero scored was a diamond of a bloke but Danile Levey is a **** but you are allright. So on the balance of a detailed analysis that's one jew who is a twat but 4 who are sound so lets all live happily and try and get on. Is there not a middle man who can sit the jews and palestines down and have a twenty year plan of consolidation?

Are they still going to be at this in 50 years? need to find an answer rather than blame.
 
That's not what your post implied. You made it sound like the formation of Israel was a land-grab by a bunch of European "crooks"

Almost, I "Implied" nothing, I said the ones financing the Zionists (The ideology) were the crooks, with the religious element being the fictitious "Jewish homeland" that did not exist anywhere except in a book written in the stone ages.
The truth is Israel was a land grab by a bunch of crooks hiding behind an ideology claiming a religion as justification.

Your following rant again makes the excuse that they were somehow entitled because of their treatment in Europe to go to another country and take some other poor buggers land, you admit they were anything but Palestinian Jews, and conveniently fail to mention that they were recruited by the Zionist organisation who traveled around Europe's resettlement camps, with those having any kind of military experience top of the list, that and the surge of arms smuggled into Palestine are a documented fact of history.

Your attempts at labeling me are pathetic because you dont know me , I certainly wont "Do you a favor", not because you may be Jewish, but that you are a self opinionated clown who thinks only you have the true picture and anyone who disagrees with your views is some kind of race hater.
 

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