jaiguruKun
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Fuck off!
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It hasn't upset me as much as I thought I would
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
I feel sad, I feel angry and pissed off. Don’t get me wrong this nothing like relegation. Just frustrating to put up such a limp performance for whatever reason in game where victory would have so much impact on the club.
I’m wondering if it had nothing to do with the team selection and the players just couldn’t handle the occasion. Who knows.
I’m wondering if it had nothing to do with the team selection and the players just couldn’t handle the occasion. Who knows.
HolisticJim
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- 28 Jan 2009
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- 4,347
Fantastic post! Some sensible points.OK my take for what it's worth. I'm not totally devasted, I'm upset yes, just like after losing any big match but we've been through far, far worse so devastated? No.
Am I unhappy with the team selection or the way we played? No. Why? Team Selection: As I've just mentioned in one reply. Most seem to be berating starting without Fernandinho or Rodri, but both players started the FAC Cup defeat so it wouldn't necessarily have solved anything.
Sterling? Nobody said it was a mistake for Chelsea to play Werner. He's got 6 goals from 35 (or so) matches in the Prem, Sterling has 10 from 31 starts. A top striker doesn't become a crap striker overnight and he was probably our biggest threat in the first half. Who's to say before the match he isn't going to score? (For the same reason I thought that knowing our luck, Werner will score).
Tactics: For me, the reason behind the tactics were as follows: Chelsea have beaten us twice and know exactly how we play. Tuchel is a VERY good tactician, and Pep knew that starting the XI we all purportedly wanted was effectively telling them exactly what they were up against, and that may have given them a mental edge having already won twice recently. I think to get around that he HAD to change it.
I think the idea was to try to get an early lead, with Mahrez, Stirling, Foden forming an attacking lineup and then possibly bring on the holding midfielder later to shore things up. I didn't think we did a huge amount wrong, we started OK with a break right from the kick off and while we didn't have too many shots that was testament to their defence rather than City playing badly.
The match stats show that we had 7 shots in total, they had 8, while we had 4 blocked to just one by them. So it was tight. Overall we had 3 corners to their 1, 25 throw ins to their 17, 88% pass success rate to their 81, 20 aerial balls won to their 16, and just 8 clearances to their 26. Overall possession was 60/40 so please stop telling me they didn't turn up.
At the end of the day it was a long pass forward from more or less the half way line, great pass that led to their goal. On another day Havertz could have tried to chip the keeper and put it over the bar, tried to slide it past Eddy and gone wide and so on. We see one on ones missed every day. Last night he didn't. We don't know if Ferdo or Rodri would have been there to prevent the pass. On another day you don't see the superb tackle that stopped Foden from scoring; on another day you'll see player sent off for far less that that block tackle on KDB, and you'll see KDB put in one killer pass that gets us back in the game. It was just fine margins, they set out to be good defensively and last night they were very good. We weren't crap, they stifled us well. They didn't hammer us, we lost by the finest of margins. There was nothing there to suggest to me that playing either DM would have changed anything for the better.
Should Pep have changed it? Well the alternative was showing Chelsea the team they'd probably prepared for anyway. We might have lost by more. But we have a manager that has been there, bought the T-shirt and so on and has earned the right to do what he thinks will work for us. For me, it was worth a punt against a side that he KNEW had the measure of us. If it pays off he's a hero.
Tell me to fuck off by all means, but for me the real disappointment was the post-match thread last night. How can people slag off the team and manager and say it's embarrasing? For me, it's embarrassing to have won the title, especially after a poor start, the league cup for a record successive 4th consecutive time, and let's not forget, 6 times in 8 years, and see Aguero beat Rooney's all time one club scoring record on the last day, then see all those posts deriding the team and the manager.
I'm disappointed, but more in the reaction rather than the match. Seems to me that we've just turned into what we used to hate the most - glory hunters who think we have a God given right to win everything and can't take a defeat on the chin, and that's sad when I think back to how well we took it in the late 90's and bounced back. That hurts more than the defeat last night ever will. Today I'm ashamed to be a City fan, and none of it has anything to do with the way we played last night.
Still gutted thou and not sure a out a number of things. We need more creative energy in the middle and more energy.
I cared more than I thought I would.
I’ve never cared about the CL, never really took to it, it’s full of elitist wankers.
Then against PSG that changed, first came the nerves, followed by me wanting it and then anger (last night)
“Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says...’bugger’.”
I’ve never cared about the CL, never really took to it, it’s full of elitist wankers.
Then against PSG that changed, first came the nerves, followed by me wanting it and then anger (last night)
“Made a note in my diary on the way here. Simply says...’bugger’.”
We also lost 6 and drew 5, not including the FAC defeat so it's not faultless or foolproof. My take is that he knew Chelsea had the measure of us so tried to tweak it. It's one of those, if it works you're a hero, if it doesn't you're not but the way the match went I don't see it as being that conclusive either way. If we'd got battered and lost 4-0, yes.My point is that we have played with 1 holding DM all season, either Rodri or Ferna. We won the league and played brilliant football in a system that worked. Not starting either last night was a massive gamble that imo affected us both defensively and offensively as Gundog was out of position for their goal and in general couldn't impact going forward from a deeper position. Pep tinkered with a proven formula and I think it cost us last night.
Tevez City
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- Joined
- 9 May 2010
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- 13,838
Disappointed, gutted & depressed.
The last time I felt this low was when we were knocked out by VAR against Spurs.
The last time I felt this low was when we were knocked out by VAR against Spurs.
PrezIke
Well-Known Member
If your an older or an English based fan CL probably means a lot less to you. Not me. I am still very angry.
They tried to ask about the difference in Yank views on the mashup-9320 pod to the American based podcasters, but whilst it was given some explanation, I feel the problem with American City fans (or PL fans) but especially our fans because of the "plastic" label is we're always trying to prove how long we're fans and that we are JUST like a Manc.
A few said they care about the PL, blah blah. Of course we do, but football is not the biggest sport.
The drama of Cup Finals is the way Americans are used to sports.
NCAA FInal Four, the Finals, the Superbowl.
Even winning "the league" means less because it's all about "the playoffs."
No one cares if you dominate the season. "Choke" in the playoffs and you are forever ridiculed.
That's how we come off from this.
Cup finals are for average fans, and sorry the FA Cup or Carabo Cup are NEVER given the attention to anyone other than those who follow the PL and then the hardest core football followers.
But even these fans use CL against us and Pep talks about it so much, and our owner/chairman want it because they know outside of England, and across the world it's THE thing they talk about.
No one cares if you win 6 PL titles in a row without CL it won't mean as much to fans in Spain who never watch a PL game.
When I was in Asia 2 years ago I met someone from Spain who was a pretty big Barca fan, who lived in Madrid. He barely knew who KDB was at all.
Why? Because we never get to the CL Semis or Final.
That's not just a media narrative, or even just an American thing, I think it's the global fan view.
With all due respect, I do think English/PL fans DO live in a bubble.
The global more casual fans and the importance of CL globally is why they wanted the Super League.
I could say I don't care but I'm not living the same experience.
Yesterday was incredibly cold and wet in NYC.
Even with this awful weather I watched the game outside with about 30-50 almost entirely neutral or Chelsea fans in a courtyard in Manhattan under the Manhattan bridge at a football/soccer pitch business called The Ground.
They ain't doing that for regular season PL game, other than the fans of the two sides.
If it's City vs. any other big club we are overwhelmed in numbers almost always. Yesterday was no different. I'm not sure there was one other clear City fan there than me.
It's these fans that NEVER have seen us win it and we won't get the respect completely until we win it no matter if our fans keep saying they don't care.
I'll tell you what. The players sure care. I'd bet all my money that overwhelmingly, if not all of our players care about CL more than the PL.
In fact, we can't keep or attract players without that. No one can.
Personally I am devastated and so frustrated with the performance and way Pep set up.
The idea "we will be back" does not only sound foolish but if so could be when all these players are gone.
United have not been back for a long time and that was even when they were a top side at the end of their era.
They tried to ask about the difference in Yank views on the mashup-9320 pod to the American based podcasters, but whilst it was given some explanation, I feel the problem with American City fans (or PL fans) but especially our fans because of the "plastic" label is we're always trying to prove how long we're fans and that we are JUST like a Manc.
A few said they care about the PL, blah blah. Of course we do, but football is not the biggest sport.
The drama of Cup Finals is the way Americans are used to sports.
NCAA FInal Four, the Finals, the Superbowl.
Even winning "the league" means less because it's all about "the playoffs."
No one cares if you dominate the season. "Choke" in the playoffs and you are forever ridiculed.
That's how we come off from this.
Cup finals are for average fans, and sorry the FA Cup or Carabo Cup are NEVER given the attention to anyone other than those who follow the PL and then the hardest core football followers.
But even these fans use CL against us and Pep talks about it so much, and our owner/chairman want it because they know outside of England, and across the world it's THE thing they talk about.
No one cares if you win 6 PL titles in a row without CL it won't mean as much to fans in Spain who never watch a PL game.
When I was in Asia 2 years ago I met someone from Spain who was a pretty big Barca fan, who lived in Madrid. He barely knew who KDB was at all.
Why? Because we never get to the CL Semis or Final.
That's not just a media narrative, or even just an American thing, I think it's the global fan view.
With all due respect, I do think English/PL fans DO live in a bubble.
The global more casual fans and the importance of CL globally is why they wanted the Super League.
I could say I don't care but I'm not living the same experience.
Yesterday was incredibly cold and wet in NYC.
Even with this awful weather I watched the game outside with about 30-50 almost entirely neutral or Chelsea fans in a courtyard in Manhattan under the Manhattan bridge at a football/soccer pitch business called The Ground.
They ain't doing that for regular season PL game, other than the fans of the two sides.
If it's City vs. any other big club we are overwhelmed in numbers almost always. Yesterday was no different. I'm not sure there was one other clear City fan there than me.
It's these fans that NEVER have seen us win it and we won't get the respect completely until we win it no matter if our fans keep saying they don't care.
I'll tell you what. The players sure care. I'd bet all my money that overwhelmingly, if not all of our players care about CL more than the PL.
In fact, we can't keep or attract players without that. No one can.
Personally I am devastated and so frustrated with the performance and way Pep set up.
The idea "we will be back" does not only sound foolish but if so could be when all these players are gone.
United have not been back for a long time and that was even when they were a top side at the end of their era.
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I reckon people would have been saying "He knew Chelsea had the measure of us so why didn't he change it?"We hamstrung ourselves with the team selection, that is what is so disappointing. If we had played the side that beat PSG and got beaten then there wouldn’t have been that feeling of what if.
One great tackle to prevent Foden scoring, Mahrez late shot just over, it was fine margins. If either of them had gone in and we'd gone on to win everyone would have been saying "Masterstroke". We could have played the DM and lost by more, but we weren't hammered, we weren't outplayed so I think far too much is being made of this team selection thing.
Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? I sure as hell don't. I also don't understand why saying we'll be back soon sounds foolish. For me, it would be more foolish to suggest that we won't be. In the last couple of years we've seen ourselves, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs in thre CL Final and we're easily the best of those on our day so if any of those three can make it to a final I'm danmed sure that the club who have won a long list of trophies on one decade have a very, very good chance of being back there soon. Not foolish at all.If your an older or an English based fan CL probably means a lot less to you. Not me. I am still very angry.
They tried to ask about the difference in Yank views on the mashup-9320 pod to the American based podcasters, but whilst it was given some explanation, I feel the problem with American City fans (or PL fans) but especially our fans because of the "plastic" label is we're always trying to prove how long we're fans and that we are JUST like a Manc.
A few said they care about the PL, blah blah. Of course we do, but football is not the biggest sport.
The drama of Cup Finals is the way Americans are used to sports.
NCAA FInal Four, the Finals, the Superbowl.
Even winning "the league" means less because it's all about "the playoffs."
No one cares if you dominate the season. "Choke" in the playoffs and you are forever ridiculed.
That's how we come off from this.
Cup finals are for average fans, and sorry the FA Cup or Carabo Cup are NEVER given the attention to anyone other than those who follow the PL and then the hardest core football followers.
But even these fans use CL against us and Pep talks about it so much, and our owner/chairman want it because they know outside of England, and across the world it's THE thing they talk about.
No one cares if you win 6 PL titles in a row without CL it won't mean as much to fans in Spain who never watch a PL game.
When I was in Asia 2 years ago I met someone from Spain who was a pretty big Barca fan, who lived in Madrid. He barely knew who KDB was at all.
Why? Because we never get to the CL Semis or Final.
That's not just a media narrative, or even just an American thing, I think it's the global fan view.
With all due respect, I do think English/PL fans DO live in a bubble.
The global more casual fans and the importance of CL globally is why they wanted the Super League.
I could say I don't care but I'm not living the same experience.
Yesterday was incredibly cold and wet in NYC.
Even with this awful weather I watched the game outside with about 30-50 almost entirely neutral or Chelsea fans in a courtyard in Manhattan under the Manhattan bridge at a football/soccer pitch business called The Ground.
They ain't doing that for regular season PL game, other than the fans of the two sides.
If it's City vs. any other big club we are overwhelmed in numbers almost always. Yesterday was no different. I'm not sure there was one other clear City fan there than me.
It's these fans that NEVER have seen us win it and we won't get the respect completely until we win it no matter if our fans keep saying they don't care.
I'll tell you what. The players sure care. I'd bet all my money that overwhelmingly, if not all of our players care about CL more than the PL.
In fact, we can't keep or attract players without that. No one can.
Personally I am devastated and so frustrated with the performance and way Pep set up.
The idea "we will be back" does not only sound foolish but if so could be when all these players are gone.
United have not been back for a long time and that was even when they were a top side at the end of their era.
As for United, Fergie came to the end of his tenure and they didn't prepare for it well. I've seen enough in the past 10 years to suggest that we're in a very different place to where they were at that time.
We also lost 6 and drew 5, not including the FAC defeat so it's not faultless or foolproof. My take is that he knew Chelsea had the measure of us so tried to tweak it. It's one of those, if it works you're a hero, if it doesn't you're not but the way the match went I don't see it as being that conclusive either way. If we'd got battered and lost 4-0, yes.
We could have easily conceded 4 last night tbh.