It may not be this year.

[Dhenry]

Hughes is building a team around what he likes. He has been doing that from this time last year.

He has been given the confidence and the support of the owners and the chairman to do so. So we've seen virtually a whole starting 11 brought in / developed; changes in the backroom staff; changes in training; etc. If we were to put anyone else in who would disagree with these methods, we would be back in august 2008. Simple as.

To me the way the players talk about his mentality and training methods is what gives me a lot of faith in him. The message coming out is, he's tough, demanding and doesn't like egos. Ireland, Richards (after his bust-up with him) et al. have all said that compared to Hughes, Sven and his staff let them run around doing pretty much anything they liked... Ireland said that about the changes since 1-8 at Boro, Richards about why the words were exchanged...

If a manager is demanding and expects players to give their all, he will have success - Hughes needs to rebuild the squad from Svens squad of slackers and little commitment. Hence the shedding of players such as Elano et al.

Another point: Two months ago, players touted to come in were the likes of Crouch, Parker and so on...Now we have Tevez, Ade, Barry and Toure...and Hughes is bringing in shit players? What a joke.

edit: and I also love the 'not his players' excuse, I guess people here must have really good connections to know exactly what goes on behind the scenes of city... and yet we idolise a spurs fan for his knowledge.

 

[Anonymous]

This comes up every time MH is debated, and frankly its bollox, not one City fan I know WANTS MH to fail, rather than City be a success.

Actually, I disagree. The overwhelming majority of course don't want MH to fail. However, there is certainly a very tiny and vocal group who I believe would are so desperate to be rid of Hughes that they would prefer us to have a shit season to be rid of him, rather than us having a good season.

There are plenty though who watched us last year, and saw little or no improvement in various aspects of the team, I don't care what people say, MH and his coaching staff are responsible for getting that improvement.

The defence (largely the same as the previous season) went backwards, our away form showed no sign of improving from start to finish, all things that if he and his staff were good enough then we would have shown some improvement in. But to those who laud MH as some super hero, it was ALL the players fault.

This is the beginning of where people like you let yourselves down. Speaking only for myself, I have NEVER said Hughes is SUPER HERO. In fact, I've NEVER even said he's a world class manager. What I have said, is that we should give him a fair crack of the whip, and one season certainly is not that. Especially a season which was so bizarre in so many ways.

Yes, we were poor on the road. Yes some of our defensive displays were beyond unacceptable. But you CANNOT simply lay 100% of the blame at the feet of the management and coaching staff. At some point, players must take some responsibility.

Anyway that's last year, so what about this ? Its totally his squad now, even he wouldn't disagree, he's been given a (very conservative in my opinion) top 6 target, but with the money spent adding to what we already had, the top 4 is possible, and should be achievable, but it will mean the team showing a lot more balls away from home than it did last year, and it will need some proper organisation, players playing in the positions they are best at, a squad pulling together.

As someone says above, the bar has been greatly raised now, I think the "top 6" is for public consumption, but the true target is to challenge at the top, expectation have rightly been raised too, and MH now has the team he wanted in place (bar maybe one or two).

Our first 3 games should all be winnable, but they are games that won't be easy, 1 bogey team, a newly promoted side still on a high, and another we often struggle away from with. They will be a great marker as to where we will finish. 6 or 7 points as a minimum for me.

Finally this stability thing is a red herring, if the manager isn't up to the job, no matter who he is, he should be replaced for the best interest of the club.

Mourinho won things in his first season at Chelsea, so why not MH in his second, if he's so good.

I agree with the vast majority of what you've posted above.

I don't think the "stability thing" is a red herring at all. Certainly not in the case of City right now. You can't ignore the instability which was rife both on and off the field during most of last summer's transfer window. You also can't ignore how dramatically the goalposts shifted when the ADUG took over.

Oh, and comparing Mourinho's first season with Hughes' second is laughable. Once more the need for a snide dig at Hughes overrides the notion of a decent argument...

 

[blueinbolton77]

Hughes is building a team around what he likes. He has been doing that from this time last year.

He has been given the confidence and the support of the owners and the chairman to do so. So we've seen virtually a whole starting 11 brought in / developed; changes in the backroom staff; changes in training; etc. If we were to put anyone else in who would disagree with these methods, we would be back in august 2008. Simple as.

To me the way the players talk about his mentality and training methods is what gives me a lot of faith in him. The message coming out is, he's tough, demanding and doesn't like egos. Ireland, Richards (after his bust-up with him) et al. have all said that compared to Hughes, Sven and his staff let them run around doing pretty much anything they liked... Ireland said that about the changes since 1-8 at Boro, Richards about why the words were exchanged...

If a manager is demanding and expects players to give their all, he will have success - Hughes needs to rebuild the squad from Svens squad of slackers and little commitment. Hence the shedding of players such as Elano et al.

Another point: Two months ago, players touted to come in were the likes of Crouch, Parker and so on...Now we have Tevez, Ade, Barry and Toure...and Hughes is bringing in shit players? What a joke.

edit: and I also love the 'not his players' excuse, I guess people here must have really good connections to know exactly what goes on behind the scenes of city... and yet we idolise a spurs fan for his knowledge.

Nice post. ferguson did the same with united. I get the feeling this is not just players either, it's everything in the club, from cleaners through to physios so to speak. And wants to rid us of the "typical city" badge we infected ourselves with.

To be fair to everyone. I think everyone is feeling tense, from fans through to management, and everyone is writing or saying whatever gets them through the day. All speculation, so the sooner we kick off the better I say :-)

 

[cleavers]

Actually, I disagree. .........

I'd guessed you would. So you have your opinion, and I have mine, I won't bother picking your every sentence apart, I seriously can't be bothered.

Stability for the sake of it, is not a reason to stick with someone who isn't good enough, the reason to stick with someone is that they are good enough, we'll see how that pans out over the next few months, but I'll be behind the team no matter my feelings on MH and his team.

I'd ask why is comparing Mourinho's first season at Cheslea with MH's second here, I'd say they are very similar in prospect.

You call any criticism of MH "snide", yet you offer no argument back as to why he is so worthy of the job after last season, what exactly was it, that convinced you last season, that he's worth keeping any more than any other manager ?

 

[blueinbolton77]

....I'd ask why is comparing Mourinho's first season at Cheslea with MH's second here, I'd say they are very similar in prospect.

I wouldn't say that. Chelsea had already put in a lot of work and already had top flight potential from a couple of seasons before Mourinho's arrival. He then spent the same, if not more than Mark Hughes, to add to the clubs strength.

Our comparison is more likes the rags, who were in the doldrums when ferguson came along and had to work of all aspects of the club, it took them 6/7 years. It WON'T take us that long, and I'm not suggesting it.

Of course, you could be right. And I definately think we have to "win" most, if not all the home games, and away we should greatly improve, because we just look more powerful on the field. We came third in the league for home games last year, a definate improvement, if we do the same away, we're already on target for top 4 anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd guessed you would. So you have your opinion, and I have mine, I won't bother picking your every sentence apart, I seriously can't be bothered.

Fair enough. But then whey carry on with the rest of this post???

Stability for the sake of it, is not a reason to stick with someone who isn't good enough, the reason to stick with someone is that they are good enough, we'll see how that pans out over the next few months, but I'll be behind the team no matter my feelings on MH and his team.

Stability for the sake of stability is of course no reason to stick with someone. But judging whether someone is good enough after one incredibly turbulent season in charge in impossible. Nice to know you'll still be behind the team though.

I'd ask why is comparing Mourinho's first season at Cheslea with MH's second here, I'd say they are very similar in prospect.

Ha! That's funny. I won't bother dragging out the stats. Personally, and no offence intended, but I find it a tad unrealistic to expect Hughes this season to do as well as Mourinho did in his first season.

You call any criticism of MH "snide", yet you offer no argument back as to why he is so worthy of the job after last season, what exactly was it, that convinced you last season, that he's worth keeping any more than any other manager ?

Lets see. A fantastic home record. Attacking football which led to a plethora of goals over the season, without a decent centre forward. The emergence of Stephen Ireland (before you jump in with the "he did it all himself..." - yes he did work hard and get himself in fantastic shape, then Hughes have him a platform to shine on). The professionalism in training which Stevie talks about in the paper interview quoted earlier in this thread.

There are, there enough reasons to give the man more than one season.

As for me calling any criticism of Hughes "snide". Frankly, bollocks. I haven't said that anywhere. What is snide, is the way in which arguments are formed belittling people who are prepared to give Hughes another season as arselickers, or that those people look at Hughes as a "super hero".

 

[cleavers]

If we are so professional in training as SI suggests, then why could we not defend or take corners all season ? or did we not do that in training. I've no idea what training as like (I doubt you have either), but the evidence I saw home and away was that we didn't improve much over the season.

The home form was great, but it was nearly as good the year before under Sven, in fact I think we lost fewer home games the year before, though I'd have to look it up and I don't have time.

The away form started abysmally, and it ended abysmally, surely this much more professional training would have at least generated some improvement by the end ?

This same professionalism showed during our 2 domestic cup runs, not. The UEFA Cup run was great of course, but we got lucky on 2 occasions, and actually only played really well in 2 games in the whole run.

It matters not whether I would have given him another season, he's got one, and now he's got his team to play with, so there are no longer any excuses.

I hope he succeeds, but you probably don't believe me.

As for my "snide" comment, that was yours......

Once more the need for a snide dig at Hughes overrides the notion of a decent argument

 

[blueinbolton77]

This same professionalism showed during our 2 domestic cup runs, not. The UEFA Cup run was great of course, but we got lucky on 2 occasions, and actually only played really well in 2 games in the whole run.

Football needs a little luck along with everything else in the game.

As for the seasons, in 2006/07 we finished 18th on home results, 2007/08 we finished 6th, then 2008/09 we finished 3rd. The move from 6th to 3rd is a harder jump once you get into the top 6 positions.

In the half time statistics, we moved from 10th position in 2007/08 to 5th in 2008/09! With only chelsea, united, pool and arsenal better than us. Which means we were not closing out games effectively. With the new players on board, we should be more than capable of that now.

 

[Anonymous]

If we are so professional in training as SI suggests, then why could we not defend or take corners all season ? or did we not do that in training. I've no idea what training as like (I doubt you have either), but the evidence I saw home and away was that we didn't improve much over the season.

The home form was great, but it was nearly as good the year before under Sven, in fact I think we lost fewer home games the year before, though I'd have to look it up and I don't have time.

The away form started abysmally, and it ended abysmally, surely this much more professional training would have at least generated some improvement by the end ?

This same professionalism showed during our 2 domestic cup runs, not. The UEFA Cup run was great of course, but we got lucky on 2 occasions, and actually only played really well in 2 games in the whole run.

It matters not whether I would have given him another season, he's got one, and now he's got his team to play with, so there are no longer any excuses.

I hope he succeeds, but you probably don't believe me.

As for my "snide" comment, that was yours......

Once more the need for a snide dig at Hughes overrides the notion of a decent argument

No offence, but basically what you've said is that the things we did well, were inspite of Hughes or lucky, and the things we didn't do well were all Hughes' fault.

Tough to discuss when you use logic like that...

My comment about the snide dig was in response to you saying Hughes should do as well as Mourinho did in his first season "if he's such a great manager" - or words to that effect.

Like most of the anti-Hughes brigade, IMO you are severely short on objectivity. The proof of the pudding though will be in the performances and results this season...maybe we can pick up this discussion around Christmas time...

 

[Bluemoonbaldboy]

This same professionalism showed during our 2 domestic cup runs, not. The UEFA Cup run was great of course, but we got lucky on 2 occasions, and actually only played really well in 2 games in the whole run.

Football needs a little luck along with everything else in the game.

As for the seasons, in 2006/07 we finished 18th on home results, 2007/08 we finished 6th, then 2008/09 we finished 3rd. The move from 6th to 3rd is a harder jump once you get into the top 6 positions.

In the half time statistics, we moved from 10th position in 2007/08 to 5th in 2008/09! With only chelsea, united, pool and arsenal better than us. Which means we were not closing out games effectively. With the new players on board, we should be more than capable of that now.

We had the second best home record not the 3rd we lost more than Liverpool etc but they drew an awful lot so on points won at home only the rags did better.