It's Quiet - a new dawn

[We'reNotReallyHere]

I wouldn't say he was "world class"

Define world class in your opinion then, with examples of strikers better than Aguero.

 

[Akiva]

Sergio has inexplicably missed some key chances as has de Bruyne. In fact I think de Bruyne's miss against Chelsea was season defining for both ourselves and Chelsea.

I agree and have heard others in the Etihad say the same. We had that game under control until that miss, easily the most horrendous miss by any club (Dippers included) this season. From there they got the tailwind and we got nervy infront of goal. They went top, we slid down.

We create chance after chance, despite our supposed defensive shortcomings.

Our forwards have let us down at crucial periods.

Yep, that's about the size of it. The media continues to focus on defensive mishaps, but I can't pinpoint a game in months that we wouldn't have run away with if we'd even have taken half our clear cut chances.

Pep continues to harp on about our performance in both boxes, but is, at heart, a manager who runs the show from the front first. Guardiola teams will outscore you, this is a key principle. We haven't done that this season, but not for lack of trying.

Kun isn't solely to blame for this, but he's still markedly under-par. 11% conversion rate in the league is his lowest on record and, given our lack of consistent goals elsewhere on the park, stands out like a sore thumb for a player who can only really play as a striker.

I think Aguero is much more aligned with what Madrid's MO is, in terms of his present profile, established record and look.

...

It would not surprise me if City and Madrid have an "understanding" on Sergio and Mbappe.

Yep, that sounds more in line with what Madrid would do.

Break from their MO/transfer policy and sign a youngster like Mbappe or go all in for one of the best, established strikers on the planet in Aguero? The latter makes sense for them and, meanwhile, they'll wait for Mbappe to hit 25-26 as a potential Ballon d'Or and hope to snatch him from City with their star power and a shitton of money.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Its great that we showing interest in some of the top forwards in the world but......with a squad that already has Kev, Aguero, Sane, Silva, Sterling, Jesus......all this starting 11 is really missing is a new set of fullbacks that can support the attackers without leaving us open at the back and a complete CM player that can defend and take control of the middle of the field.....looking at spending over 100mil to upgrade our striker options seems a bit of an overkill, when all our weakness sits at the back?

If we get the right balance in the back 4 and in midfield, we'd automatically get more goals from our forwards imho!;)

The drop off if in talent if either Sterling or Sane is injured to Nolito and Navaz is huge. We don't have anyone coming off the bench fresh that makes the opposition defenders think 'fuck me Ive got to face this guy now'. I've got a feeling Sanchez will come in and Aguero will go they are both too good to sit on the bench at this stage of their careers but Sanchez can play right across the front where Aguero can't so we can rotate our 4 top forward players barring injury.

Going to be a very interesting summer and hopefully we bring in players at the back that will improve us like Sane and Jesus have done upfront.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Define world class in your opinion then, with examples of strikers better than Aguero.

Think he was talking about Hart, not Aguero.

 

[IWasHere]

Define world class in your opinion then, with examples of strikers better than Aguero.

For starters world class players don't play for teams like torino.

As of now I'd say suarez and lewandowski

 

[We'reNotReallyHere]

For starters world class players don't play for teams like torino.

As of now I'd say suarez and lewandowski

Thought you were talking about Aguero, not Hart, my bad, apologies.

 

[Callum Ramsey]

The fees being branded around for an 18 year old in his first season just seem absurd to me. Granted he's having an incredible season and looks a genuine talent but that's the kind of fee paid for world-class players who've done it consistently at the highest level. I tend to be in the camp that wants to wait another season to see if he can match or even better the current one he's having, his price may increase but then the record fee being branded around now will look justified.

I keep hearing this once in a generation talent and I just don'e see it yet. Martial had an incredible season last year for a United team that looked absolutely toothless upfront and was basically carrying their attack by himself and look how this season is turning out now that defenders and managers have studied his game and have an understanding of what he tends to favour doing most in his play to counter it. Likewise Mario Gotze had an even better season than this kid is having in his last one for Dortmund which he fired them into the champions league final that they lost in part because of his suspension. This was a then 20 year old who had three incredible seasons where he played a key part in his team winning back-to-back league titles and a cup as well as reaching a champions league final yet no absurd world record fees were being branded around when he moved to Bayern for just £31.5m (though a german player record at the time). His time at bayern was blighted by injuries and a change of system that didn't seem to fit him but that's the risk with young players and he looked more like a once in a generation player than Mbappe.

I don't want to seem like I'm underselling this kid as like I said earlier he does look a genuine talent who potentially could go on to be the Henry replacement that's been branded around for countless other youngsters but he still has a long way to go before those kind of comparisons can even be made and as it pertains to City, I particularly don't see the point of paying a world record fee for an 18 year old when you have a player like Gabriel around the same age who I actually find to be the more talented and well-rounded player and one that also fits exactly what pep wants and expects in his system. It's just a massive risk not worth taking in my eyes and the only way I could see the transfer making sense is if Aguero was to be sold and the fee from that was used to buy him as his replacement.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

There is a billion quid coming to the market this summer from just four Premier League clubs.

It's not short of £80m, let's put it that way, in what we are prepared to pay (add-ons and all that)

I'm confident we are have a very good chance.

I think we all expect City, rags and Chelsea to spend really big. The fourth club is Arsenal?

 

[Akiva]

The fees being branded around for an 18 year old in his first season just seem absurd to me. Granted he's having an incredible season and looks a genuine talent but that's the kind of fee paid for world-class players who've done it consistently at the highest level. I tend to be in the camp that wants to wait another season to see if he can match or even better the current one he's having, his price may increase but then the record fee being branded around now will look justified.

I keep hearing this once in a generation talent and I just don'e see it yet. Martial had an incredible season last year for a United team that looked absolutely toothless upfront and was basically carrying their attack by himself and look how this season is turning out now that defenders and managers have studied his game and have an understanding of what he tends to favour doing most in his play to counter it. Likewise Mario Gotze had an even better season than this kid is having in his last one for Dortmund which he fired them into the champions league final that they lost in part because of his suspension. This was a then 20 year old who had three incredible seasons where he played a key part in his team winning back-to-back league titles and a cup as well as reaching a champions league final yet no absurd world record fees were being branded around when he moved to Bayern for just £31.5m (though a german player record at the time). His time at bayern was blighted by injuries and a change of system that didn't seem to fit him but that's the risk with young players and he looked more like a once in a generation player than Mbappe.

I don't want to seem like I'm underselling this kid as like I said earlier he does look a genuine talent who potentially could go on to be the Henry replacement that's been branded around for countless other youngsters but he still has a long way to go before those kind of comparisons can even be made and as it pertains to City, I particularly don't see the point of paying a world record fee for an 18 year old when you have a player like Gabriel around the same age who I actually find to be the more talented and well-rounded player and one that also fits exactly what pep wants and expects in his system. It's just a massive risk not worth taking in my eyes and the only way I could see the transfer making sense is if Aguero was to be sold and the fee from that was used to buy him as his replacement.

Not sure if your issue is the fees or even just making a marquee signing out of Mbappe in the first place.

If the former, well, City have money, I'm not sure that's such a concern and would be unlikely to handcuff our other expenditures.

If the latter, wouldn't that extend to Gabriel Jesus or Leroy Sane too? Both came, both less tested and proven than Mbappe, both have exceeded most of our wildest expectations in their inaugural season. Could be the Pep factor, or not, but if the club are willing to sink a world record fee into this kid then it's not just because he has promise and nothing more.

I think we all expect City, rags and Chelsea to spend really big. The fourth club is Arsenal?

When have Arsenal ever spent big? They can, but they just don't.

Dippers maybe?

 

[cibaman]

We create chance after chance, despite our supposed defensive shortcomings.

Our forwards have let us down at crucial periods.

They have, but we've good reasons to believe that will improve next season without too much change in personnel. Lets say we get a full season out of Jesus, Sane continues to improve at the rate that he has in the last few months, Sterling also continues to improve, Gundogan returns fully fit and makes those late runs into the box. That could easily be worth another 25 PL goals next season without, making a single attacking signing. If we were to add Sanchez then I think that we've every reason to be optimistic to about the forwards.

 

[aguero93:20]

If the latter, wouldn't that extend to Gabriel Jesus or Leroy Sane too? Both came, both less tested and proven than Mbappe, both have exceeded most of our wildest expectations in their inaugural season.

We bought both combined for £60m. A World record fee brings an entirely different kind of pressure.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

Not sure if your issue is the fees or even just making a marquee signing out of Mbappe in the first place.

If the former, well, City have money, I'm not sure that's such a concern and would be unlikely to handcuff our other expenditures.

If the latter, wouldn't that extend to Gabriel Jesus or Leroy Sane too? Both came, both less tested and proven than Mbappe, both have exceeded most of our wildest expectations in their inaugural season. Could be the Pep factor, or not, but if the club are willing to sink a world record fee into this kid then it's not just because he has promise and nothing more.



When have Arsenal ever spent big? They can, but they just don't.

Dippers maybe?

Probably have Sanchez and Ozil fee's in the bank. Finally backing Wenger for a last hurrah?

 

[IWasHere]

Thought you were talking about Aguero, not Hart, my bad, apologies.

No worries

 

[BillyShears]

Comes across that you have a good rapport and he clearly knows (his) stuff.

I need to listen to the pods more often (time thing). Our Kid listens most weeks as he usually gets train from London to Crewe on a Friday.

Tell him we appreciate the support :)

 

[Akiva]

We bought both combined for £60m. A World record fee brings an entirely different kind of pressure.

Jesus was £27 million plus add ons.
Sane was £43.8 million plus add ons.

Regardless, I get your point about pressure on the player and expectations that come with a world record fee (see: Paul Pogshit) The OP I was responding to wasn't arguing about that though, they suggested another year in Monaco for Mbappe, performing as he has this year, would justify the spend. I do believe it's quite likely that he will opt for another season there, and Monaco (who stand to lose a good proportion of their successful squad) would paint this as a victory, but ultimately his talent has been established and he has set his market value through his performances.

Is he worth a world record fee? Some clubs believe so. Perhaps City do too.

 

[aguero93:20]

Jesus was £27 million plus add ons.
Sane was £43.8 million plus add ons.

Regardless, I get your point about pressure on the player and expectations that come with a world record fee (see: Paul Pogshit) The OP I was responding to wasn't arguing about that though, they suggested another year in Monaco for Mbappe, performing as he has this year, would justify the spend. I do believe it's quite likely that he will opt for another season there, and Monaco (who stand to lose a good proportion of their successful squad) would paint this as a victory, but ultimately his talent has been established and he has set his market value through his performances.

Is he worth a world record fee? Some clubs believe so. Perhaps City do too.

Pogba is the perfect case in point - if he'd cost £40m nobody would blink an eyelid. As it is he's set a World record so is instantly compared to Tranny, Zidane etc and comes up short, way short.

 

[TFC]

Pogba is the perfect case in point - if he'd cost £40m nobody would blink an eyelid. As it is he's set a World record so is instantly compared to Tranny, Zidane etc and comes up short, way, way, way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay short. Basically he's shite.

 

[Callum Ramsey]

Not sure if your issue is the fees or even just making a marquee signing out of Mbappe in the first place.

If the former, well, City have money, I'm not sure that's such a concern and would be unlikely to handcuff our other expenditures.

If the latter, wouldn't that extend to Gabriel Jesus or Leroy Sane too? Both came, both less tested and proven than Mbappe, both have exceeded most of our wildest expectations in their inaugural season. Could be the Pep factor, or not, but if the club are willing to sink a world record fee into this kid then it's not just because he has promise and nothing more.

My issue is that the fee being branded is for players that have had two or more consistent seasons of performance at a high level in which case a more concrete judgement of their base talent level can be made. There have been quite a few young players who've had breakout seasons and then gone on to not better it as they got older as their game gets studied by teams to counter it. That's when their true ability will come through and the ridiculous prices and hype can look justified. Like I said with Martial last season who is having a harder time now that his talent level has been recognised by premier league managers who're finding ways to stop or minimise his effect. Additionally, paying a world record fee for the Gotze of dortmund would be more justified as then you had a clearer picture of his ability through multiple seasons of performances at the highest level.

Now you go on to list Jesus and Sane and yes I'll give you Jesus as he was definitely an unknown quantity even though he'd been making waves in Brazil but could easily also have turned out like any other overhyped young brazilian so I understand your point on him being less proven. In regards to Sane though he had definitely proven himself and had two good seasons prior to being signed. Though he didn't have the kind of season that Mbappe is currently having and rarely played in the champions league, he had built his hype over two seasons in germany where he made 46 league appearances and was also Schalke's best player in his first and only champions league game against Madrid at the bernabeu therefore a clearer judgement of his ability could be made as well as a justifiable fee. Both these players were bought for no more than a combined £62m so their risk level is certainly not the same as paying a world record fee for Mbappe.

Even Sterling who was bought for an English player world record fee £44m had more of a higher sample of games where he performed consistently and proven himself before being bought. He'd had one incredible season where he played a key part in a title chasing team which won him the golden boy award and another decent season where he had to carry an attack by himself as suarez left and fill in as a false nine when sturridge got injured. In fact contrary to what many believe his last season for pool was even more impressive than the previous because of this and the teams' form only started dipping at the latter stages of the season when his contract issues came up and it was clear his focus was not there anymore. If you'd ask most liverpool fans prior to that issue they would've had him as their POTS. So in regards to Mbappe, unless he's being bought as a replacement for Aguero, I see it as too much of a gamble to take on him as a player currently especially for the prices being branded

 

[Akiva]

Pogba is the perfect case in point - if he'd cost £40m nobody would blink an eyelid. As it is he's set a World record so is instantly compared to Tranny, Zidane etc and comes up short, way short.

No arguments here, but @Callum Ramsey is saying that another season of Mbappe performing as he has would be enough to perhaps justify the spend. Pogba had several prolific seasons at Juventus/France and was a known commodity and shoe-in for future best midfielder in the world. Yet, lo and behold, he's shite.

Basically, the argument is that signing Mbappe for a world record fee would be a massive gamble. I agree, but all signings are a gamble. Bravo was a gamble, Jesus was a gamble, Gundogan was a gamble. Mbappe almost certainly would be a big gamble which carries a big risk, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make it and, if there's a chance another club (particularly a league rival) could make a move for him this summer, I'd imagine the club wouldn't let them get in before them.

I suppose that's why @tolmie's hairdoo is talking about Mbappe AND Sanchez. You have a lot of cover there, with the young, red hot talent and the proven PL superstar. Should things go tits up, well, Mbappe's young and will improve under Pep, meanwhile Sane-Jesus-Sterling with Sanchez thrown into the mix will be more than enough to do the job. Or Aguero, if he stays.

 

[aguero93:20]

No arguments here, but @Callum Ramsey is saying that another season of Mbappe performing as he has would be enough to perhaps justify the spend. Pogba had several seasons at Juventus/France and was a known commodity and shoe-in for best midfielder in the world. Yet, lo and behold, he's shite.

He's far from shite imo, but he isn't playing for a manager that gets the best from him and even if he was he wouldn't justify that fee. Pogba at a World record fee was a huge, huge gamble in comparison to the previous record holders, Vieri, Ronaldo, Shearer, Figo, Zidane, Tranny, Bale all absolutely top quality players proven on the club and international stage or hitting silly amounts of goals.