Jérémy Hélan & City (Merged)

[onceabluealways]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

Its the procedures within the game that are cr*p.

They need to change the rules - for instance

Any player who has been at at team through their academy after the age of 10 for 2-3 years should be entitled to half the transfer fee when the player is transfered once he turns proffessional.

May not stop the poaching but at least clubs will get some recompense.

 

[whp.blue]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

Would it be restraint of trade if he had willingly signed a contract on that basis?

For me if a small backwater club in Argentina or a small English lower league side like,say, Leeds unearthed a gem then why shouldn't they get to capitalise on that. That player might allow them to beat the drop or gain promotions. Why shouldn't they enjoy that benefit if they did all the ground work? Seems far fairer to me. (Wouldn't actually apply to Leeds though obviously). Otherwise it is just another part of the system that helps to maintain the status quo and for me that goes against the very ethos of what is meant to be a competitive sport. It would distribute money around the lower leagues more fairly too. Anyway just thinking out loud. I know it's probably impractical and certainly won't happen. But rules that make the game more equitable and help to level the playing field are sorely needed. Otherwise for the majority of clubs what is the point of participating? Seriously.[/quote]


yes I think so even if it is in a contract and you agree to it at the time if it is illegal at a later date you could contest the terms and win.
I had something similar in one of my previous employment contracts stating I could not work for a competitor when I left that company my lawyer won the case on restraint of trade and there was never any doubt I had agree to it by signing my original contract.

 

[levets]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

If the club as they stated have acted entirely proper, what is the allegation all about?

Did we take this kid from Rennes - Yes
Was he in dispute with Rennes before City entered the fray - Yes
Did the FFA issue international clearance for him to join us - Yes
Are Rennes referring to an agreement they had with him when he was 13yrs old, and is this illegal - Yes

No case to answer your honour.

Another thing, is this the same FIFA whose president caused a storm last year accusing MUFC of slavery when they insisted Ronaldo was under contract. He kind of encouraged Ronaldo to breach his contract with that statement... City's lawyers will tuck him up big style

 

[supermicahrichards]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

Academies should exist to give kids opportunities, just like schools and universities. The fact that a company, the football club, sponsors the academy shouldn't tie the kids to anything. Until they are adults they should be free to go anywhere they like. Any compensation should be between the clubs and the football associations and should never interfer with what a kid decides he wants to do. Once they get to adulthood (be that 16, 17 or 18 depending on the rules of the country) then they have big decisions to make and must take on the accountability of a binding contract.

I don't like the idea of acedemies being in the interest of the clubs, they should be in the interest of the footballing community. For this reason I'd prefer if a different term was used for pre adult acedemies (e.g. school of football) and post adult acedemies (e.g. professional football academy). It'd make it a bit awkward for teams with both age groups but players could still be invited to be part of ewither team and the academy could still carry on prett much as is but with the emphasis placed appropriately on different aged kids.

If academies can't exist for the betterment of the club than why would a club invest in an academy? That's the problem.

 

[DontLookBackInAnger]

Re: Oh dear - City worse than Chelsea

I remember baconface talking about this a couple of years ago, and I recall thinking at the time he had a point! The way things are setup now it's crazy its easier to bring in a player from overseas than it is to bring in a player from Yorkshire!

 

[Nixon_The_Bike_Thief]

Re: Oh dear - City worse than Chelsea

No one can tell me that moving Messi and his whole family to Spain was not induced in some way but that is for the conscience of FIFA.

Messi was released by his Argentinian club at an early age (13) because he needed extensive medical treatment for him to continue his football development, at the time there was little money in Argentinian football and as he was a "promising" prospect but not the finished article they decided against helping him due to the costs, River Plate also baulked at the cost. Barca took the gamble, paid all the medical fee's and moved him and his family to there academy, he has catalan relatives who organised the trial when he could not fund the medical fee's himself. This is yet another reason that Messi feels he owes so much to Barca and would not leave of his own accord, without them he may have never been a footballer.

 

[bluemoonbaldboysMRS]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

If the club as they stated have acted entirely proper, what is the allegation all about?

Did we take this kid from Rennes - Yes
Was he in dispute with Rennes before City entered the fray - Yes
Did the FFA issue international clearance for him to join us - YesAre Rennes referring to an agreement they had with him when he was 13yrs old, and is this illegal - Yes

No case to answer your honour.

Another thing, is this the same FIFA whose president caused a storm last year accusing MUFC of slavery when they insisted Ronaldo was under contract. He kind of encouraged Ronaldo to breach his contract with that statement... City's lawyers will tuck him up big style

That is the difference between us and rags they haven't recieved clearence yet

 

[Watchman]

Re: Feel ill but a Rag just spoke some sense and I agree!

a couple of points...

the FA have brought this uopn themselves. In 1999 they introduced the 90 min rule, good old Howard Wilkinson thought that it would help devleop local talent with their local clubs , this was meant to prevent big PL clubs aquiring all the best talent up and down the country . This meant that city and United could not sign any youngster who lived more than 90 mins drive away . But this did not apply to foriegn players..so we now have a situation where Chelsea , United , arsnela have feeder clubs abroad who spot and develop talent within their locality , at a much lower costs. Then when suitable players are recognised they can be brought to this country for a lower fee..rafeal and Fabio were bought for 1m each from the brazilin feeder club , Song , denilson bought from the german feeder club ...it wouldnt be possible now for United to sign a kid from London , or city to sign a youth player from Scotland...

the legalities with regards contracts are not standard across different countries, and are subject to many different regional and local FA laws

as for the two cases brought by the french clubs...I understand the facts to be ..the city player was under a pre contract ..although how legaly binding that is is hotly debated

the lad Pogba , never signed a contract

 

[supercity36]

tapping up... were involved now

hi mods if a similair thread exists please merge or delete this

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11800_5543626,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 26,00.html</a>

Rennes have confirmed they have reported Manchester City to Fifa over the alleged poaching of French youngster Jeremy Helan.

City boss Mark Hughes snapped up the teenage defender earlier this year after he reportedly opted against seeing out his first professional contract with Rennes.

The Clairefontaine academy player had been wanted by Manchester United in 2008, but the Ligue 1 outfit dug in their heels over his departure.

With The Red Devils out of the picture City moved in, much to the anger of Rennes who insist that his pre-contract agreement tied both him and the club to a contract if he represented France at youth level.

Transfer ban
If found guilty of inducing a youngster to break a contract City could well find themselves in hot water with football's governing body after Chelsea were recently banned from signing new players until January 2011 over their pursuit of Gael Kakuta

Although Rennes' technical director Pierre Dreossi does not expect a decision to be made anytime soon, he fully expects big-spending City to face ramifications over their actions.

City are understood to be adamant in their belief that they have not induced a breach of contract in a case which is further complicated by the fact that Helan and Rennes are at odds, legally, over what he initially signed up to.


Consequences
"Manchester City must now realise the consequences of their attitude in the Helan case as it is even more illegal than Kakuta," Dreossi told The Independent.

"We have referred this to Fifa. For us it was strange to have no discussion from City and now, in the week after the Fifa declaration on Chelsea, I would hope that it will be the same thing for Manchester City.

"Kakuta signed up for just a possibility of a full contract. For Helan there was definitely one there, under the terms of the pre-contract agreement, because he had played for his country.

"Manchester United said it was not possible to negotiate with us but for City now this is dangerous, though we are not expecting a decision from Fifa for perhaps several years

it was only a matter of time

 

[BlueLlama]

Re: tapping up... were involved now

hi mods if a similair thread exists please merge or delete this

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11800_5543626,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 26,00.html</a>

Rennes have confirmed they have reported Manchester City to Fifa over the alleged poaching of French youngster Jeremy Helan.

City boss Mark Hughes snapped up the teenage defender earlier this year after he reportedly opted against seeing out his first professional contract with Rennes.

The Clairefontaine academy player had been wanted by Manchester United in 2008, but the Ligue 1 outfit dug in their heels over his departure.

With The Red Devils out of the picture City moved in, much to the anger of Rennes who insist that his pre-contract agreement tied both him and the club to a contract if he represented France at youth level.

Transfer ban
If found guilty of inducing a youngster to break a contract City could well find themselves in hot water with football's governing body after Chelsea were recently banned from signing new players until January 2011 over their pursuit of Gael Kakuta

Although Rennes' technical director Pierre Dreossi does not expect a decision to be made anytime soon, he fully expects big-spending City to face ramifications over their actions.

City are understood to be adamant in their belief that they have not induced a breach of contract in a case which is further complicated by the fact that Helan and Rennes are at odds, legally, over what he initially signed up to.


Consequences
"Manchester City must now realise the consequences of their attitude in the Helan case as it is even more illegal than Kakuta," Dreossi told The Independent.

"We have referred this to Fifa. For us it was strange to have no discussion from City and now, in the week after the Fifa declaration on Chelsea, I would hope that it will be the same thing for Manchester City.

"Kakuta signed up for just a possibility of a full contract. For Helan there was definitely one there, under the terms of the pre-contract agreement, because he had played for his country.

"Manchester United said it was not possible to negotiate with us but for City now this is dangerous, though we are not expecting a decision from Fifa for perhaps several years

it was only a matter of time

What woke you up?