Jack Byrne signs permanently for Wigan

[KenTheLandlord]

Jack Byrne would never have got into the first team. He is just 15 weeks younger than a similar player who is in our first team and if you think he would ever get close to Leroy Sané, you need to step away from the bong. That is the level he was up against.
No one came in for him in Holland as he was above average in a very poor team. Cambuur were relegated and he has not been remembered for being outstanding.
I hope he does well and has a long career he should be good enough to get back in the Prem and i hope he does, other than that good luck and see you in a cup.

 

[Shirley]

Hope we have a £89 million buy back clause, seems the smart thing to do !

 

[trevorriley]

For what we invest in academy it has still not turned the ratio of academy to first team successfully, all but one player. Clearly players that have attempted just dont have the strength, although we are good at the academy level when it comes to cup games. Is it just a football factory to sell on to lower clubs or abroad ?

It takes time and i hope we see players filter through in the next couple of years. But for now it still looks like a separate part of the club. Having said that they are the best facilities in europe.

 

[Matty]

The comments from people such as 'oh well he probably won't make it at City, so it's a good move for him' are completely missing the point.

The point is: he has never had a chance.

Is he a good footballer ? Yes. Intelligent ? Yes. Willing to track back ? Yes. Tough ? Yes. Can he score goals ? Yes. Good enough to be on the bench for City for 40 games last season a brought through ? YES. Bad enough to cost City everything if we'd played him in a few games ? No fucking way, he's a good player. Spare place in squad for him, so it would have cost nothing to give him a chance ? Yes.

If all of those things are true then why, may I ask, did he fail to make any impact at all at Blackburn? They clearly don't have a great deal of better options than a guy who apparently is good enough to get games at City given they've spent the entire season in the relegation zone. Surely the point of a loan move is to give players much needed first team experience, and to assess how they cope in "real football" which is a far cry from youth football. Byrne succeeded in Holland to a degree, although Holland is renowned for making players look better than they actually end up being, but you can't call his time at Blackburn anything other than a disappointing failure. He'll have been assessed when out on loan, coaching reports, match reports (for the few times he got on the pitch) etc and those reports can't have been favourable.

We've spent a shit load of money on our new academy. It makes absolutely fuck all sense for your comment "Clearly, hardly any are going to get a chance" to be true. Why spend hundreds of millions on an academy, stock it with players, spend years training/teaching them only to sell them on for not too much money in the scheme of things, and so it all again? We have a sizeable coaching staff, at all age levels, isn't it far more likely that those coaches have over the years, and also over the past few months, assessed Byrne and decided that, although he clearly has some talent, it's talent that isn't going to progress to the point where he'd be able to make a real difference to a title challenging side with the aim of being the bets in Europe?

Your argument is the same each time, "we didn't give them a chance". However your version of "giving them a chance" is always "play them in the City first team and see if they sink or swim" like that's the only proveable way of assessing a players potential. The club, like most clubs, seem to be taking the "watch them for years in the youth setup, send them out on loans, and assess them" approach. I'm not sure why you seem to feel that your method is the right one and the one chosen by the club is so fundamentally flawed, as with most things I'm more inclined to trust the professionals when it comes to their approach then the keen amateur.

 

[Cobra]

The club, like most clubs, seem to be taking the "watch them for years in the youth setup, send them out on loans, and assess them" approach. I'm not sure why you seem to feel that your method is the right one and the one chosen by the club is so fundamentally flawed, as with most things I'm more inclined to trust the professionals when it comes to their approach then the keen amateur.

Considering the dearth of young English players making the step up from youth football to playing regularly in the Premier League, maybe the current method isn't working. Look at how many players Chelsea have had out on loan, and none of them have actually come back and broken through into the first team. Josh McEachran was an incredibly talented youngster who had his career derailed by a series of pointless loans. Whereas Pochettino at Spurs is actually taking the opposite view point - he'd rather their young players stay at Spurs so he can personally attempt to improve them - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-mauricio-pochettino-interview-a7549816.html

 

[aguero93:20]

Considering the dearth of young English players making the step up from youth football to playing regularly in the Premier League, maybe the current method isn't working. Look at how many players Chelsea have had out on loan, and none of them have actually come back and broken through into the first team. Josh McEachran was an incredibly talented youngster who had his career derailed by a series of pointless loans. Whereas Pochettino at Spurs is actually taking the opposite view point - he'd rather their young players stay at Spurs so he can personally attempt to improve them - http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...s-mauricio-pochettino-interview-a7549816.html

We could do that if we didn't have so many senior players on big contracts. As it stands we're trying to do it with the most promising 2 - Iheanacho and Garcia, but there's no way we'll be able to give enough of the lads the progression they need under club guidance without a B team

 

[BillyShears]

If all of those things are true then why, may I ask, did he fail to make any impact at all at Blackburn? They clearly don't have a great deal of better options than a guy who apparently is good enough to get games at City given they've spent the entire season in the relegation zone. Surely the point of a loan move is to give players much needed first team experience, and to assess how they cope in "real football" which is a far cry from youth football. Byrne succeeded in Holland to a degree, although Holland is renowned for making players look better than they actually end up being, but you can't call his time at Blackburn anything other than a disappointing failure. He'll have been assessed when out on loan, coaching reports, match reports (for the few times he got on the pitch) etc and those reports can't have been favourable.

We've spent a shit load of money on our new academy. It makes absolutely fuck all sense for your comment "Clearly, hardly any are going to get a chance" to be true. Why spend hundreds of millions on an academy, stock it with players, spend years training/teaching them only to sell them on for not too much money in the scheme of things, and so it all again? We have a sizeable coaching staff, at all age levels, isn't it far more likely that those coaches have over the years, and also over the past few months, assessed Byrne and decided that, although he clearly has some talent, it's talent that isn't going to progress to the point where he'd be able to make a real difference to a title challenging side with the aim of being the bets in Europe?

Your argument is the same each time, "we didn't give them a chance". However your version of "giving them a chance" is always "play them in the City first team and see if they sink or swim" like that's the only proveable way of assessing a players potential. The club, like most clubs, seem to be taking the "watch them for years in the youth setup, send them out on loans, and assess them" approach. I'm not sure why you seem to feel that your method is the right one and the one chosen by the club is so fundamentally flawed, as with most things I'm more inclined to trust the professionals when it comes to their approach then the keen amateur.

Good post Matty.

I think at the root of it we can have opinions on most academy related things, but when you've got guys with decades of football knowledge at the sharp end assessing these kids you have to trust them a little bit.

I always come back to the same thing. Which one of these kids who we aren't giving a chance is going on to rip it up somewhere else? Why are these kids not getting a chance at decent sized La Liga or Bundesliga clubs if they have that much talent. When Lopes left everyone said it was a disgrace, same with Rekik, neither has done anything to justify the hype some of our lot created around them.

That's not to say we haven't made the odd blunder or strange decision regarding a particular players' development - but overall I'm far more inclined to be trusting our academy set up and the staff there than a keen amateur as you put it.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Good post Matty.

I think at the root of it we can have opinions on most academy related things, but when you've got guys with decades of football knowledge at the sharp end assessing these kids you have to trust them a little bit.

I always come back to the same thing. Which one of these kids who we aren't giving a chance is going on to rip it up somewhere else? Why are these kids not getting a chance at decent sized La Liga or Bundesliga clubs if they have that much talent. When Lopes left everyone said it was a disgrace, same with Rekik, neither has done anything to justify the hype some of our lot created around them.

That's not to say we haven't made the odd blunder or strange decision regarding a particular players' development - but overall I'm far more inclined to be trusting our academy set up and the staff there than a keen amateur as you put it.

Dennis Suarez is the only real contender as he is now getting game time for barca but even with him if you look at his journey to the Barca team it gives you an idea of how players have to use the loan system and i guess be lucky to succeed.

He left us to go to Barca in 2013 where he played for their b team, he then went to Sevila on loan for a season and played nearly every game in la lega, but that was not enough and he was sold to Villarreal and played almost every game for them last season although with a buy back clause and that is how he is back there now and on the fringe of their team. So Suarez who we let go played 2 full seasons of top flight football before getting the chance he has now with Barca. Compare that story to Bryne!

I think we have to be realistic and target the best - Garcia is the better midfielder so we keep him with the squad. Lets hope we have a buy back option on Bryne.

 

[WNRH]

If all of those things are true then why, may I ask, did he fail to make any impact at all at Blackburn? They clearly don't have a great deal of better options than a guy who apparently is good enough to get games at City given they've spent the entire season in the relegation zone. Surely the point of a loan move is to give players much needed first team experience, and to assess how they cope in "real football" which is a far cry from youth football. Byrne succeeded in Holland to a degree, although Holland is renowned for making players look better than they actually end up being, but you can't call his time at Blackburn anything other than a disappointing failure. He'll have been assessed when out on loan, coaching reports, match reports (for the few times he got on the pitch) etc and those reports can't have been favourable.

We've spent a shit load of money on our new academy. It makes absolutely fuck all sense for your comment "Clearly, hardly any are going to get a chance" to be true. Why spend hundreds of millions on an academy, stock it with players, spend years training/teaching them only to sell them on for not too much money in the scheme of things, and so it all again? We have a sizeable coaching staff, at all age levels, isn't it far more likely that those coaches have over the years, and also over the past few months, assessed Byrne and decided that, although he clearly has some talent, it's talent that isn't going to progress to the point where he'd be able to make a real difference to a title challenging side with the aim of being the bets in Europe?

Your argument is the same each time, "we didn't give them a chance". However your version of "giving them a chance" is always "play them in the City first team and see if they sink or swim" like that's the only proveable way of assessing a players potential. The club, like most clubs, seem to be taking the "watch them for years in the youth setup, send them out on loans, and assess them" approach. I'm not sure why you seem to feel that your method is the right one and the one chosen by the club is so fundamentally flawed, as with most things I'm more inclined to trust the professionals when it comes to their approach then the keen amateur.

Jack Byrne - good enough for City and Barca, but not for Blackburn.........

 

[cleavers]

Interestingly he didn't even make Wigan's bench tonight, I know its early days so can't judge yet, but Wigan are struggling badly, so you'd think he would be at least an option from the bench right away.