Jadon Sancho

[ChicagoBlue]

You win. Everyone in every academy is a prodigy. Happy???

Doesn't change a damned thing. Prodigy or not, it is what you do when given the chance. Do you even recognize it for what it is?!

We are talking about a player who has done a few things, made a bit of a name for himself, but is still young enough to go either way. What will he do! Who will he be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs? Will be looking back in 15 yrs at a sparkling career, or will he have been another of the many who look like world beaters against their own age and never make the step up?

I couldn't give a monkeys about a word, no matter how absurd it is or used, what I care about is whether a player can play with the big boys. I'm sure Jadon is 10 times the "prodigy" that Gareth Barry ever was. Call me back when the prodigy has his caps, or his top flight appearances.

Ok, now I'm done. It's all yours.

 

[Neville Kneville]

You win. Everyone in every academy is a prodigy. Happy???

Doesn't change a damned thing. Prodigy or not, it is what you do when given the chance. Do you even recognize it for what it is?!

We are talking about a player who has done a few things, made a bit of a name for himself, but is still young enough to go either way. What will he do! Who will he be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs? Will be looking back in 15 yrs at a sparkling career, or will he have been another of the many who look like world beaters against their own age and never make the step up?

I couldn't give a monkeys about a word, no matter how absurd it is or used, what I care about is whether a player can play with the big boys. I'm sure Jadon is 10 times the "prodigy" that Gareth Barry ever was. Call me back when the prodigy has his caps, or his top flight appearances.

Ok, now I'm done. It's all yours.

By that time, he wouldn't be a 'prodigy' anymore.

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

By that time, he wouldn't be a 'prodigy' anymore.

Mate I get how passionate you are on all the academy kids, but the word prodigy is a good one.

They are ALL that good. It's indisputable. But fact is it takes more than that to make it at prem level, not just with us.

Timing, opportunity, attitude, luck...there's a ton of things that have to be aligning for these lads. It doesn't matter how talented they are, we simply won't play them over a player we already give 80K pw to unless all of the aforementioned align. Any manager that does that takes a huge risk and in doing so undermines either himself or the person above him who bought the player on the big bucks.

Look at Kelechi. It wasn't just talent. Injuries had to happen for him to get a sniff of the bench. Suspensions. Bony going to AFCON/getting sick etc.

And even with all that, Kelechi got 1 min here, 2 mins there. But he took them. He kept scoring to a point where his goals couldn't be ignored and the risk/reward factor was flipped and it was less risk to play him ahead of Bony.

Sancho is trying to claim he won't get a chance.

Players have gotten chances. Few have taken them.

Even now, look at pre-season. Lots got chances. Brahim, Foden,Duheny,Muric, Roberts, Zinchenko, Tosin and more.

Who of that bunch took their chance? Brahim and Foden, that's it. Let's be honest, none of the rest stood out, but that was their chance to.

So Brahim and Foden have a shot this year at getting a chance.

Anyone else that doesn't can only blame themselves for not doing more in pre-season.

Sancho could have had the same chance, but he wanted more.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Mate I get how passionate you are on all the academy kids, but the word prodigy is a good one.

They are ALL that good. It's indisputable. But fact is it takes more than that to make it at prem level, not just with us.

Timing, opportunity, attitude, luck...there's a ton of things that have to be aligning for these lads. It doesn't matter how talented they are, we simply won't play them over a player we already give 80K pw to unless all of the aforementioned align. Any manager that does that takes a huge risk and in doing so undermines either himself or the person above him who bought the player on the big bucks.

Look at Kelechi. It wasn't just talent. Injuries had to happen for him to get a sniff of the bench. Suspensions. Bony going to AFCON/getting sick etc.

And even with all that, Kelechi got 1 min here, 2 mins there. But he took them. He kept scoring to a point where his goals couldn't be ignored and the risk/reward factor was flipped and it was less risk to play him ahead of Bony.

Sancho is trying to claim he won't get a chance.

Players have gotten chances. Few have taken them.

Even now, look at pre-season. Lots got chances. Brahim, Foden,Duheny,Muric, Roberts, Zinchenko, Tosin and more.

Who of that bunch took their chance? Brahim and Foden, that's it. Let's be honest, none of the rest stood out, but that was their chance to.

So Brahim and Foden have a shot this year at getting a chance.

Anyone else that doesn't can only blame themselves for not doing more in pre-season.

Sancho could have had the same chance, but he wanted more.

All of the kids bar Duhaney did fine imo. But the only real test is in the real games. And it's easy.to play kids here & there as subs, if the will is there to do it.

If that isn't true, there is no point in having an academy at a club like City, we might as well just close it & steal the kids we need from others.

Sancho can have the same or better chance at any top club as at City. I hope he chooses City.

 

[caseball]

This is probably the wrong thread for this but I think it applies to Sancho in the sense that this episode calls into question more than just his lad's ability and behaviour.

The whole academy setup is wrong to start with but that doesn't mean the players in it are wrong too. The reserves used to be known as 'the stiffs' and first teamers didn't want to play for them but occasionally had to when coming back from injury or for some other reason (punishment). The stiffs are called the EDS now. Before the hard of reading jump all over my post, I'm not advocating a return to that way of thinking, but I don't see that the perception has changed much, since you don't see many first teamers playing for the EDS ever. They possibly figure less than they did back in the days of the Central League, which would lend some weight to the argument that the academy has become more or less a separate entity with little connection to the Premier League team. An argument that is unwittingly supported by those who claim you can't risk them because the difference is too big to be overcome by all but the most outstanding prospects.

But what happens to a player like Foden now? Does he go back to the group he was with before this pre-season? Does he go to the EDS? If he does, should he feel promoted? The lad looked like one of the best players on the pitch the other day. The only fair, logical outcome now is to give him the chance to do it in games that matter, not in glorified amateur football with the EDS or Under whatevers. If he succeeds, we've got a great addition to the squad and a great advert for the Academy: if not, he and City can assess the situation and move on in another direction. An immediate return to youth football is not a positive alternative for a player who has looked so comfortable with the higher standard that has been put in front of him. The excuse that we can't risk him in serious games is not going to stand up in the light of the speed with which our top players offloaded the ball to him against West Ham. If they think he's ready, how can he not be given his chance to shine on the big stage? I don't see that there's any rule about the composition of the squad that prevents his, or others' involvement in real football matches.

I don't know what that has to do with Sancho specifically but if he'd gone on tour we might have a clearer idea of where he's really up to. That he didn't go on tour, from the outside, appears to be his fault and nobody else's. That he should have been given a chance earlier is impossible to know. If his place on tour was dependent on his signing a contract, then I can understand his refusal to sign. I would rebel against such a condition too.

 

[Neville Kneville]

This is probably the wrong thread for this but I think it applies to Sancho in the sense that this episode calls into question more than just his lad's ability and behaviour.

The whole academy setup is wrong to start with but that doesn't mean the players in it are wrong too. The reserves used to be known as 'the stiffs' and first teamers didn't want to play for them but occasionally had to when coming back from injury or for some other reason (punishment). The stiffs are called the EDS now. Before the hard of reading jump all over my post, I'm not advocating a return to that way of thinking, but I don't see that the perception has changed much, since you don't see many first teamers playing for the EDS ever. They possibly figure less than they did back in the days of the Central League, which would lend some weight to the argument that the academy has become more or less a separate entity with little connection to the Premier League team. An argument that is unwittingly supported by those who claim you can't risk them because the difference is too big to be overcome by all but the most outstanding prospects.

But what happens to a player like Foden now? Does he go back to the group he was with before this pre-season? Does he go to the EDS? If he does, should he feel promoted? The lad looked like one of the best players on the pitch the other day. The only fair, logical outcome now is to give him the chance to do it in games that matter, not in glorified amateur football with the EDS or Under whatevers. If he succeeds, we've got a great addition to the squad and a great advert for the Academy: if not, he and City can assess the situation and move on in another direction. An immediate return to youth football is not a positive alternative for a player who has looked so comfortable with the higher standard that has been put in front of him. The excuse that we can't risk him in serious games is not going to stand up in the light of the speed with which our top players offloaded the ball to him against West Ham. If they think he's ready, how can he not be given his chance to shine on the big stage? I don't see that there's any rule about the composition of the squad that prevents his, or others' involvement in real football matches.

I don't know what that has to do with Sancho specifically but if he'd gone on tour we might have a clearer idea of where he's really up to. That he didn't go on tour, from the outside, appears to be his fault and nobody else's. That he should have been given a chance earlier is impossible to know. If his place on tour was dependent on his signing a contract, then I can understand his refusal to sign. I would rebel against such a condition too.

There are a lot of questions we can't answer with this.

But the point I'm making re Sancho is that it has been coming, if not with him, with Tosin or whoever, because we are building a rep as a club who won't bring through young players. It was always only a matter of time before our enemies would use that to steal players.

Re players like Foden, playing EDS games for fitness & initially, occasional subs games would seem the obvious solution to me. Then his reputation increases & his chances of a quality loan increase, if he is unable to make an early breakthrough as a starter. Same for Diaz, Roberts etc imo.

Sub games in turn, loans out later if they can't make an impression.

Re reserve football, I have totally changed my mind on that. Giggs made a great point that when he was a kid, he was playing alongside & against senior pros at reserve level. They dropped in there for match practice. He learned plenty from it.

Nowardays kids play v kids & learn nothing & senior players keep them out of the first team by coming off the bench for match practice.

Giggs is right. Stick them in the reserves.

 

[caseball]

I don't really understand why they don't ever drop down. Aguero's been injured a lot and Kompany but they've never featured in the EDS to my knowledge. Maybe there are too many young players on the books? Maybe more should be released at 18? It gives the impression that there's the Premier League Manchester City and then there's the Manchester City Academy and there's no crossover intended. Are they too good or too valuable to risk in the EDS? A sad thought if true.

 

[Cobra]

Foden has never really played for the EDS, so I don't think a few EDS games here and there will be too bad for him. Diaz and Sancho (if he stays) are too good to play the whole season at that level now.

We must be the only club who doesn't play any first team players for the reserves, whether they be out of favour or working their way back to full fitness. Everton won the reserve PL last season partly because they had Oumar Niasse playing for them for the first half of the season. Why not stick Gundogan in there for 2-3 games - I'm sure some of the kids would relish playing alongside him.

 

[caseball]

You'd think so wouldn't you? But a lot of posters on here seem to think it's cheating for some reason. Like winning the PL reserve league means something. I think there really is a mindset that the Academy at City is some kind of statement rather than a means to an end. The end being to produce some footballers for City. I don't know what it should be but I'm sure some can tell us definitively.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't really understand why they don't ever drop down. Aguero's been injured a lot and Kompany but they've never featured in the EDS to my knowledge. Maybe there are too many young players on the books? Maybe more should be released at 18? It gives the impression that there's the Premier League Manchester City and then there's the Manchester City Academy and there's no crossover intended. Are they too good or too valuable to risk in the EDS? A sad thought if true.

It just became policy I think, that kids get promoted as a group from the U18s to the EDS.

I thought it was a good idea & kind of scoffed at the likes of the rags who put out teams with Wayne Rooney in, but Giggs' comments, backed up by a fair few others & the fact that nobody at all comes through our academy, has made me rethink it completely.

When we played at the swamp a few years back we outclassed them completely, but the likes of Januzai & Wilson even, who had first team experience & also were used to playing alongside first team players, had a killer instict we couldn't begin to match & they dicked us in terms of goals & were much more solid defensively.

Many of their kids have since played in the Prem & hardly any of ours have even got off the subs bench.