James McAtee

[Xhavenjoe]

The Pep paradox. Won't pick a young lad who won't commit long-term. Lad won't commit unless he gets picked. He will piss about picking Raz though when he wants to go.

Its the old chicken and egg conundrum.
I have found a solution though.

I've just ordered a chicken and an egg from Amazon. Then I'll know which comes first.

 

[asahartford1]

The Pep paradox. Won't pick a young lad who won't commit long-term. Lad won't commit unless he gets picked. He will piss about picking Raz though when he wants to go.

It's not Pep who loses out, it's the club and fans when one of their own, their homegrown David Silva is playing against them at Old Trafford or Anfield for the next 10/15 years and battering us.

I'd happily go without trophies this year if it means Lavia, McAtee, Palmer and Delap are all part of the first team squad, signed up long-term and at least 2 of them on the pitch at some point in most games, because for the future of the club I think it protects us a damn site more from Pep leaving with our over-reliance on buying for him and we'd win 2x/3x the trophies in the next decade with them.

As Barca showed, coping with a manager like Pep leaving is about having homegrown stars who have such pride in the shirt they carry the team on. Once Barca fucked off La Masia for half a decade and spent hundreds of millions on crap they fell apart.

Pep has to be made to swallow his pride on this one.

Ffs was it Sterlings fault that it pissed down today.

 

[Manchester_lalala]

Not a chance he’s getting anywhere near our first team for a couple of years. So yeah, he’ll be off.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

Ireland is miles off the talent Mcatee is,and we also have billions in the bank......thats why they are incomparable.

If Ireland is miles off the talent of McAtee, then McAtee must be a great talent.
The "good" Ireland would get into most premier league squads.

 

[balotelli's back pocket]

The Pep paradox. Won't pick a young lad who won't commit long-term. Lad won't commit unless he gets picked. He will piss about picking Raz though when he wants to go.

It's not Pep who loses out, it's the club and fans when one of their own, their homegrown David Silva is playing against them at Old Trafford or Anfield for the next 10/15 years and battering us.

I'd happily go without trophies this year if it means Lavia, McAtee, Palmer and Delap are all part of the first team squad, signed up long-term and at least 2 of them on the pitch at some point in most games, because for the future of the club I think it protects us a damn site more from Pep leaving with our over-reliance on buying for him and we'd win 2x/3x the trophies in the next decade with them.

As Barca showed, coping with a manager like Pep leaving is about having homegrown stars who have such pride in the shirt they carry the team on. Once Barca fucked off La Masia for half a decade and spent hundreds of millions on crap they fell apart.

Pep has to be made to swallow his pride on this one.

They're completely different players in different positions, so why the fuck are you having a dig at Raz?

This forum is becoming a nasty place.

 

[Norman kneejerk]

We got him because he left United so he does have form for moving. I think city could easily accommodate some talented new blood, in possible order of leaving Raz very soon, Ferna end of season, Mahrez next year or two, Bernardo we don't know probably next summer, Gundo year or two, KDB 2 or 3 years. If he's genuinely interested in staying seems a good opportunity.

 

[asahartford1]

Ireland is miles off the talent Mcatee is,and we also have billions in the bank......thats why they are incomparable.

Mason Mount is a very good comparison,Chelsea recognised his potential and sorted him with great loans from age 18.

Vitesse and Derby County his loan clubs, great ???
Just perhaps Pep has seen something he doesn't like.
Pisses me off some of these kids who say they want to leave for first team football then end up on a bench somewhere.
Perhaps it is the influence of an agent wanting a pay day or unrealistic expectations, Sancho is sat on a fortune and a bench.

 

[colbee59]

The Pep paradox. Won't pick a young lad who won't commit long-term. Lad won't commit unless he gets picked. He will piss about picking Raz though when he wants to go.

It's not Pep who loses out, it's the club and fans when one of their own, their homegrown David Silva is playing against them at Old Trafford or Anfield for the next 10/15 years and battering us.

I'd happily go without trophies this year if it means Lavia, McAtee, Palmer and Delap are all part of the first team squad, signed up long-term and at least 2 of them on the pitch at some point in most games, because for the future of the club I think it protects us a damn site more from Pep leaving with our over-reliance on buying for him and we'd win 2x/3x the trophies in the next decade with them.

As Barca showed, coping with a manager like Pep leaving is about having homegrown stars who have such pride in the shirt they carry the team on. Once Barca fucked off La Masia for half a decade and spent hundreds of millions on crap they fell apart.

Pep has to be made to swallow his pride on this one.

We lost the game, and the massive queues to get in , all Sterling's fault, this forum is toxic at the moment, Foden missed a penalty on Wed and hardly a moan, which is how it should be, thank god it wasn't Sterling or this forum would have gone into meltdown

 

[eastmanc]

We lost the game, and the massive queues to get in , all Sterling's fault, this forum is toxic at the moment, Foden missed a penalty on Wed and hardly a moan, which is how it should be, thank god it wasn't Sterling or this forum would have gone into meltdown

It’s because he’s been ordinary for a very long time and Foden has been excellent since he came into the side.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Vitesse and Derby County his loan clubs, great ???
Just perhaps Pep has seen something he doesn't like.
Pisses me off some of these kids who say they want to leave for first team football then end up on a bench somewhere.
Perhaps it is the influence of an agent wanting a pay day or unrealistic expectations, Sancho is sat on a fortune and a bench.

We do seem to loan players out to clubs who then don't play them often enough to gain experience , which is a waste of time for the player.

There surely are better loan options than we have used .

 

[Txiki Txiki Bang Bang]

Sancho 2.0, perhaps we can now understand why these youth players feel the way they do. Give them a chance instead of splashing loads on other youth players from Spain.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

We lost the game, and the massive queues to get in , all Sterling's fault, this forum is toxic at the moment, Foden missed a penalty on Wed and hardly a moan, which is how it should be, thank god it wasn't Sterling or this forum would have gone into meltdown

Not blaming Sterling although it is very hard to defend his performances when he does get on the pitch atm and for some time.

The forum is hard to read when things not going well. but our expectation levels are high since we have had success.

In no way am I excusing the vireol of some of the posts from smacked arses who behave like spoiled children btw.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

They're completely different players in different positions, so why the fuck are you having a dig at Raz?

This forum is becoming a nasty place.

because we have Foden, Grealish, Mahrez, Jesus who can all play in Raz's spot, he's been shit for ages and is making noises to leave. Still gets picked.

Meanwhile the future of the team who has Gundogan and Kev in front of him can't get half an hour off the bench instead. Raz can sit in the stands because we don't need him and McAtee and Palmer can have the bench spots and starting spots in rotation. We can cling on to past glories and fall further behind or we can blood the future and actually have a stab of succeeding for the next decade. Maybe with homegrown lads who won't bottle CL finals they were shoehorned into a successful side to fuck up for us.

 

[asahartford1]

We do seem to loan players out to clubs who then don't play them often enough to gain experience , which is a waste of time for the player.

There surely are better loan options than we have used .

I suppose the only way to do that is send them to inferior clubs. Where they would get game time but at a lower level.
There were instances at some clubs where loan players had to play or else the loaning teams had to pay all the wage.Even when they were not worthy of a spot in the team.
Personally I think our youth teams have gone too far towards the process being all important while neglecting the Product.

 

[Centurions]

We got him because he left United so he does have form for moving. I think city could easily accommodate some talented new blood, in possible order of leaving Raz very soon, Ferna end of season, Mahrez next year or two, Bernardo we don't know probably next summer, Gundo year or two, KDB 2 or 3 years. If he's genuinely interested in staying seems a good opportunity.

Get to fuck, he was in the U11's when he joined us, that's hardly "form".

 

[bobom]

I suppose the only way to do that is send them to inferior clubs. Where they would get game time but at a lower level.
There were instances at some clubs where loan players had to play or else the loaning teams had to pay all the wage.Even when they were not worthy of a spot in the team.
Personally I think our youth teams have gone too far towards the process being all important while neglecting the Product.

There is no one single product.

One product is players like Foden, who may come along once every 20 years. So that's hardly a blueprint for others to follow.

Another product is a squad member. A squad member who is good enough, on merit, to play alongside in a squad of 16-22 of literally the best players in the world. Thets an incredibly high bar and most players will not be ready by the time they are 21.

Then there are players we can sell to top clubs, with or without a sell-on or a buy-back clause in case they are really great.

Then the others who we can sell and make a profit on, and finally players who are probably excellent but where it doesn't work out for all the reasons why 99/100 players don't end up being top notch.

Our academy produces all of these. Neither the club, nor the players, can know exactly into what group they will fall. The only way to find out is to put people through a process and see what happens.

But you can be sure that if we fast tracked a bunch of young players into the first team and then lost the CL final, fans would be justified in asking why a club of City's stature did not play with the best team of experienced, world class players we could afford.

PS I really don't want to lose McAtee. But a club like City's can never play as many young players as we would like.

 

[mccity]

I may be missing something here but why wouldn't City just sell to a Brighton, insert a buyback instead of running the risk of McAtee running down his deal and moving to a major rival?

Based on how things have been the last few years, if City really rate a player they want them sticking around as much as possible. Whether we agree with it or not, the path for the players the club is highest on seems to be slow integration into the first team, with exposure to Pep and the squad being the best course of training. Going on loan (or to another club with a buyback) is probably seen as less than optimal in the club's eyes. Being loaned out seems to be more a thing that's for players part of the academy 'farm' rather than potential first teamers (mostly).

The way McAtee has developed I'd guess the club think at this point in time it's best for him to follow the path of a potential first teamer, which the player himself by the sounds of it doesn't agree with, or maybe he just wants a faster route into the senior game.

As to why City didn't just 'cut their losses' and sell him to Brighton when they could have done, I'll assume they thought they could (and may still) get McAtee to stay.

 

[bobom]

Based on how things have been the last few years, if City really rate a player they want them sticking around as much as possible. Whether we agree with it or not, the path for the players the club is highest on seems to be slow integration into the first team, with exposure to Pep and the squad being the best course of training. Going on loan (or to another club with a buyback) is probably seen as less than optimal in the club's eyes. Being loaned out seems to be more a thing that's for players part of the academy 'farm' rather than potential first teamers (mostly).

The way McAtee has developed I'd guess the club think at this point in time it's best for him to follow the path of a potential first teamer, which the player himself by the sounds of it doesn't agree with, or maybe he just wants a faster route into the senior game.

As to why City didn't just 'cut their losses' and sell him to Brighton when they could have done, I'll assume they thought they could (and may still) get McAtee to stay.

Although I do see the point, especially if the coach is someone like Potter at Brighton, whose style is not a million miles away from ours.

 

[asahartford1]

There is no one single product.

One product is players like Foden, who may come along once every 20 years. So that's hardly a blueprint for others to follow.

Another product is a squad member. A squad member who is good enough, on merit, to play alongside in a squad of 16-22 of literally the best players in the world. Thets an incredibly high bar and most players will not be ready by the time they are 21.

Then there are players we can sell to top clubs, with or without a sell-on or a buy-back clause in case they are really great.

Then the others who we can sell and make a profit on, and finally players who are probably excellent but where it doesn't work out for all the reasons why 99/100 players don't end up being top notch.

Our academy produces all of these. Neither the club, nor the players, can know exactly into what group they will fall. The only way to find out is to put people through a process and see what happens.

But you can be sure that if we fast tracked a bunch of young players into the first team and then lost the CL final, fans would be justified in asking why a club of City's stature did not play with the best team of experienced, world class players we could afford.

PS I really don't want to lose McAtee. But a club like City's can never play as many young players as we would like.

My fault but you misunderstood my point regard product and process.
The process is to keep the ball, at all cost. Pass , pass pass, pass. Product needs to be the attempt on goal. My point was that the process has become more important than the Product.

Nothing to do with Foden. And in fact I agree with you , some regular posters on here believe each cohort of young players will produce a string of first team players..It never will.
The Academy may produce one or two but in fact its main aim is to make some income for the balance sheets.
So yes I agree with everything you posted apart from the interpretation of my pòorly worded process and product bit.

 

[mccity]

Although I do see the point, especially if the coach is someone like Potter at Brighton, whose style is not a million miles away from ours.

I agree, but I think the club believe that it's also the quality of our first team and Pep himself that are the advantage. Potter would be a good manager for him if it happened though.