Jason Denayer

[FantasyIreland]

We won’t. Regardless of personnel, we require 4 centre backs in our first team squad. Kompany and Mangala are clearly going to be 2 of the 4. If we’re saying Denayer will be the third, which I think he should, then there still needs to be one other. Do you think Denayer would believe he’s got more chance of game time if Demichelis is that 4th centre back, or if we were to release Demichelis and bring in another, say Otamendi for example?

With Mangala on the young side, there’s no way we wouldn’t bring in an experienced centre back to replace Demichelis if he was released. What chance do we have of finding someone experienced and good enough to step in for Kompany if he’s injured, but that wouldn’t demand the sort of game time that would hinder Mangala’s progress, never mind Denayer’s? And how much of our summer budget would said player cost? And what if he didn’t settle well?


Keeping Demichelis is the simplest decision we’ve ever had to make.

My thoughts are that neither player would be happy as '4th' choice.....if they are.....then magic,problem solved.....however,if not,my point is,id sooner we showed faith in Denayer.
I'm hoping your post is on the money.

 

[kenzie115]

My thoughts are that neither player would be happy as '4th' choice.....if they are.....then magic,problem solved.....however,if not,my point is,id sooner we showed faith in Denayer.
I'm hoping your post is on the money.

No player would be happy being last choice for their position, but someone has to be. If the four are as I expect them to be, then it’s up to each of them to prove they deserve to be 1st or 2nd choice. I include Kompany in this because based on last year’s form, I’d be tempted to start the season with Demichelis and Mangala as 1 & 2. However, Kompany is captain, and I’m sure everyone at the clubs expects (hopes) he will recover his form of two/three years ago, so I realistically expect that Kompany and Mangala will start as 1 & 2. Demichelis will know he’s not capable of playing 60 games a season and knows he’s not the future of our defence so will be the most “happy” to accept not being first choice, knowing he will get plenty of playing time in cup games and when Kompany inevitably gets injured. If Denayer doesn’t think he’s good enough to challenge Mangala for that 2nd spot, then he’s not ready to join the first team squad. If he does think he’s good enough, he shouldn’t worry about being given assurances of playing time.

For me, it’s not so much a case of 4 players for two spots, it’s 2 players for one spot and 2 for the other. Unless injuries/suspensions force our hand, I think we’ll always look to pair one of Kompany & Demichelis, with one of Mangala & Denayer. As such, Demichelis isn’t really competition for Denayer.

 

[john@staustell]

I think he'll get more game time as a matter of course than Dedryck did. There were times when an injured Kompany was played rather than trusting to Boyata. He did OK and you couldn't really say he let us down. But I got the over-riding impression that playing dear old Dedryck was one reason we lost to Boro and I think Pellegrini was complacent - or too trusting - with his selection. Bowing to the 'give youth a chance' brigade.

Dedders didn't have enough 'quality' about him, but I get a different impression with Denayer.

 

[franksinatra]

No player would be happy being last choice for their position, but someone has to be. If the four are as I expect them to be, then it’s up to each of them to prove they deserve to be 1st or 2nd choice. I include Kompany in this because based on last year’s form, I’d be tempted to start the season with Demichelis and Mangala as 1 & 2. However, Kompany is captain, and I’m sure everyone at the clubs expects (hopes) he will recover his form of two/three years ago, so I realistically expect that Kompany and Mangala will start as 1 & 2. Demichelis will know he’s not capable of playing 60 games a season and knows he’s not the future of our defence so will be the most “happy” to accept not being first choice, knowing he will get plenty of playing time in cup games and when Kompany inevitably gets injured. If Denayer doesn’t think he’s good enough to challenge Mangala for that 2nd spot, then he’s not ready to join the first team squad. If he does think he’s good enough, he shouldn’t worry about being given assurances of playing time.

For me, it’s not so much a case of 4 players for two spots, it’s 2 players for one spot and 2 for the other. Unless injuries/suspensions force our hand, I think we’ll always look to pair one of Kompany & Demichelis, with one of Mangala & Denayer. As such, Demichelis isn’t really competition for Denayer.

That is the most simplest thing in the world to say. Denyer has been around this club long enough now to see the limited chances any youth player has been given. He will have also seen the likes of Rekik, Guidetti (When his stock was high) given scant opportuntities to prove himself. He also probably noticed that even in dead rubber games last year players from the EDS did not even get 20 minutes on the pitch as subs in matches where the outcome was decided.

The guy has done everything which has been asked of him. He has gone to Cewltic and excelled and has now represented the National team in important games. Next year is the European Championship. At the moment he has the coveted jersey but with no guarantee that will remain if he is playing in the Championship, sitting on Citys bench all season or sent out on a disastrous loan somewhere (Re:Guidetti at Stoke and Zucculini at Valencia).

We do not know exactly what he was asking but with so much at stake I can understand him requiring reassurances particularly as over the past seven years there is not one precedent to say 'look at the game time and involvement in the first team player X got, when breaking through from the EDS'.

 

[kenzie115]

That is the most simplest thing in the world to say. Denyer has been around this club long enough now to see the limited chances any youth player has been given. He will have also seen the likes of Rekik, Guidetti (When his stock was high) given scant opportuntities to prove himself. He also probably noticed that even in dead rubber games last year players from the EDS did not even get 20 minutes on the pitch as subs in matches where the outcome was decided.

The guy has done everything which has been asked of him. He has gone to Cewltic and excelled and has now represented the National team in important games. Next year is the European Championship. At the moment he has the coveted jersey but with no guarantee that will remain if he is playing in the Championship, sitting on Citys bench all season or sent out on a disastrous loan somewhere (Re:Guidetti at Stoke and Zucculini at Valencia).

We do not know exactly what he was asking but with so much at stake I can understand him requiring reassurances particularly as over the past seven years there is not one precedent to say 'look at the game time and involvement in the first team player X got, when breaking through from the EDS'.

Fair points well made. When I mentioned not needing assurances, I was referring to playing time. I expect him to be assured of a place in the first team squad and this is what makes him different to the other cases you have mentioned (Rekik, Guidetti, any other EDS player last season). Whilst you are right that none of these were given substantial opportunities, none of them were included in the first team squad as one of the “2 players for every position = 22 players”. I expect Denayer to make that step this season and as such, his situation is different.

In my opinion, being told he’s in the first team squad should be enough for any young player who believes in his own ability.

 

[SilverFox2]

We have seen expensive signings persevered with last season, the least we can do is give home grown a similar chance.

 

[without a dream]

Fair points well made. When I mentioned not needing assurances, I was referring to playing time. I expect him to be assured of a place in the first team squad and this is what makes him different to the other cases you have mentioned (Rekik, Guidetti, any other EDS player last season). Whilst you are right that none of these were given substantial opportunities, none of them were included in the first team squad as one of the “2 players for every position = 22 players”. I expect Denayer to make that step this season and as such, his situation is different.

In my opinion, being told he’s in the first team squad should be enough for any young player who believes in his own ability.

Why would he believe what he's being told though? All the evidence points to him not being given a proper shot.

 

[kenzie115]

Why would he believe what he's being told though? All the evidence points to him not being given a proper shot.

Did you read the post you've quoted?

Because he'll be the first real graduate (post takeover) from the EDS. He's in a different situation than previous young players that feel they weren't given a shot, in that, he'll be in the first team squad. He won't be playing EDS games, he'll be involved in Premier League and Champions League matchday squads. He'll train day in day out with the first team.

It won't be a "if we're short we'll give you a call" situation, it will be a "you're one of our 4 centre backs for the season, show us what you can do".

Will he play more games than he did at Celtic last year? No.

Will he play more games than Rekik, Guidetti or Boyata? Yes.

 

[Matty]

Given Demichelis' age, he'll be 35 by Christmas, signing up a homegrown player, with international experience, and a year of top flight football (albeit in Scotland) behind him should be a fairly high priority. Denayer should be integrated into the first team over the next 12 months, with the aim being he'll play a decent amount of football for us over the next few seasons 9or, alternatively, he'll prove he isn't up to the standard and be sold). The fact we've allowed Rekik to be sold to Marseille tells us that Denayer had moved ahead of him in the pecking order. I think we'll be able to make this contract work, and tie Denayer down to a long term deal. He's only just turned 20 so there's a huge amount of potential to improve. He also needs to realise that, at just 20, he's also not the finished article, so needs to appreciate there will be times he'll have to watch from the bench.

 

[without a dream]

Did you read the post you've quoted?

Because he'll be the first real graduate (post takeover) from the EDS. He's in a different situation than previous young players that feel they weren't given a shot, in that, he'll be in the first team squad. He won't be playing EDS games, he'll be involved in Premier League and Champions League matchday squads. He'll train day in day out with the first team.

It won't be a "if we're short we'll give you a call" situation, it will be a "you're one of our 4 centre backs for the season, show us what you can do".

Will he play more games than he did at Celtic last year? No.

Will he play more games than Rekik, Guidetti or Boyata? Yes.

I'd agree, why should he take the chance though? If he doesn't sign anything the in January he'll have his pick of European clubs to talk to about a free transfer if the promised game time doesn't materialise.