Jimmy Carr

[Alan Harper's Tash]

The constant derogatory references to our owners, whether any City fan is offended or not, border on, or are definitely, racist.

This is the crux. The majority of white, christian (whether religious or not) heterosexual, able-bodied people in the UK have rarely, if ever, experienced discrimination, let alone out and out racism. Catholics in Northern Ireland certainly have but very few others I suspect.

Yet they're generally quick to tell people who have that they're being "too sensitive" or "snowflakes". If Romani people found it awful and totally offensive, then it was.

So what are you going to do about this perceived injustice, Colin?

 

[domalino]

Yeah except the more you argue it, with such a black and white take on it, the more you strengthen the joke, ironically. Not its basic line, but whats around it.

Sure, it doesn't educate you, you already know it all. But you (and others like you) talking about it rubs off passively, and will circulate and that will be happening right across discussions. Here we are, talking about something that wouldn't have talked about. Pretty much 'that's how you never forget'. Bet there were people who were there on the night laughing at it (for whatever reason btw) revisiting it.

Chicago blue was also seemingly right, it fucking holds a mirror to society. At the start of this thread, it was just a bit of a shit unfunny joke that was tasteless and unnecessary. Now it is full on racist horribly offensive and unforgivable, and should lead to wholsecale changes to how comedy is regulated. Is that not a total abstraction of how we as a society will push our entrenched views to ultimate extremes?

The discourse hasn’t changed at all from page 1 of this thread.

The problem is this determined attempt to pretend this comedy is of a higher level than it is. He is not holding a mirror to scorch by telling a disposable joke anymore than he was holding a mirror to society by dodging taxes or anyone who gets away with anything ever holds a mirror to society.

 

[Coatigan]

The discourse hasn’t changed at all from page 1 of this thread.

The problem is this determined attempt to pretend this comedy is of a higher level than it is. He is not holding a mirror to scorch by telling a disposable joke anymore than he was holding a mirror to society by dodging taxes or anyone who gets away with anything ever holds a mirror to society.

Can't really argue with that tbf. Fair enough.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

So what are you going to do about this perceived injustice, Colin?

That's a real "I've lost the argument" question.

What I'm doing is trying to show how it's offensive. That words, however meant, have consequences. That you don't have the right to tell Romani people that's it's "comedy" and can't therefore be offensive.

I've been to see Bernard Manning, Roy Chubby Brown and Jerry Sadowitz in the past. Some of their material was funny but a lot made me uncomfortable. Not because it made me question my own attitudes or beliefs (as edgy comedy should) but because i didn't find the specific level of discrimination or misogyny funny.

In my younger days we watched "Till Death Us Do Part", which was obviously very controversial. But it was ironic. Warren Mitchell wasn't being racist but using what looked like racism to poke fun at racists. He told the story of a cabbie telling him how right he was to have a go at black people. Mitchell angrily retorted that "it's people like you I'm having a go at."

But that probably went over most peoples' heads and you could argue that it actually increased racism. So I agree it was racist without a racist intent but you've to be very careful how you do that. It's a very fine line and Carr went well over it.

We can have a long debate about comedy but not once have you or some of the others defending Carr over this shown any empathy to the people most affected by this "joke", even if you're not offended yourself. That's called Emotional Intelligence. If I can get you to see that then I consider I've achieved something.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

That's a real "I've lost the argument" question.

What I'm doing is trying to show how it's offensive. That words, however meant, have consequences. That you don't have the right to tell Romani people that's it's "comedy" and can't therefore be offensive.

I've been to see Bernard Manning, Roy Chubby Brown and Jerry Sadowitz in the past. Some of their material was funny but a lot made me uncomfortable. Not because it made me question my own attitudes or beliefs (as edgy comedy should) but because i didn't find the specific level of discrimination or misogyny funny.

In my younger days we watched "Till Death Us Do Part", which was obviously very controversial. But it was ironic. Warren Mitchell wasn't being racist but using what looked like racism to poke fun at racists. He told the story of a cabbie telling him how right he was to have a go at black people. Mitchell angrily retorted that "it's people like you I'm having a go at."

But that probably went over most peoples' heads and you could argue that it actually increased racism. So I agree it was racist without a racist intent but you've to be very careful how you do that. It's a very fine line and Carr went well over it.

We can have a long debate about comedy but not once have you or some of the others defending Carr over this shown any empathy to the people most affected by this "joke", even if you're not offended yourself. That's called Emotional Intelligence. If I can get you to see that then I consider I've achieved something.

Ok, so your not going to do anything.

Cool.

Guess Jimmy isn’t cancelled then.

Life moves on.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Ok, so your not going to do anything.

Cool.

Guess Jimmy isn’t cancelled then.

Life moves on.

What the fuck do you expect me to do - behead him? Life moves on, as you say.

I've never seen him or put any money in his pocket. I watched 8 Out Of 10 Cats once as my mate's son was the Producer but found it forced and painful. Never watched it since.

What I'll do is continue to educate myself about the Holocaust and in doing so, try to educate others.

 

[mccity]

Ok, so your not going to do anything.

Cool.

Guess Jimmy isn’t cancelled then.

Life moves on.

He's not trying to cancel Jimmy though, if you take the effort to read his post he's trying to make it clear to you and others why people might be offended by the joke. I wasn't offended but I can totally see why a lot of people were, that's all we're trying to convey here.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

What the fuck do you expect me to do - behead him? Life moves on, as you say.

I've never seen him or put any money in his pocket. I watched 8 Out Of 10 Cats once as my mate's son was the Producer but found it forced and painful. Never watched it since.

What I'll do is continue to educate myself about the Holocaust and in doing so, try to educate others.

Fair enough, but then all this thread is is noise.

People can know about atrocities and still laugh at dark humour regarding them without being racist.

Is your watching 8 out of 10 cats once your version of “but I didn’t inhale”?

The irony being is that if this social media uproar hadn’t happened, then 99,9% of the world wouldn’t be aware of the joke, or it’s content.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

He's not trying to cancel Jimmy though, if you take the effort to read his post he's trying to make it clear to you and others why people might be offended by the joke. I wasn't offended but I can totally see why a lot of people were, that's all we're trying to convey here.

Fair enough. Everybody has the ability/right to be offended by anything.

What does being offended actually achieve?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Fair enough, but then all this thread is is noise.

People can know about atrocities and still laugh at dark humour regarding them without being racist.

Is your watching 8 out of 10 cats once your version of “but I didn’t inhale”?

The irony being is that if this social media uproar hadn’t happened, then 99,9% of the world wouldn’t be aware of the joke, or it’s content.

But he did say it and it's been interesting to see the debate around it. The nature and limits of comedy, bad taste, morality are all worthy subjects for discussion, even if we don't agree.