Joe Hart (continued)

[stonerblue]

You're just making excuses.

Joe's game has been regressing for 18 months. It has nothing to do with a new system.

Also, care to explain how the three goals weren't Joe's fault?

Ribery's strike was from 25 yards out, and while a good one, it didn't dip or swerve, and it beat him at his near post. It was awful goalkeeping. It was the kind complacency and lack of concentration that has come to typify Joe's game for a long time now. No excuses, it was truly dreadful.

Robben's goal was poor. Easily beaten at his near post, although not as staggeringly poor as the Ribery goal.

The Torres goal was unforgivable. We had fought hard for 90 minutes, equalised, and had Chelsea penned into their half for much of the second half. We were the stronger team approaching the end of the game, and looked like we could get a winner. As the final whistle approached we looked to be going home with a hard fought point. One long ball, and Joe gets a rush of blood to the head, charges out of his area like a maniac, Torres strolls around him and taps in the winner. The entire game pissed down the gutter.

It was absolutely unforgivable. Nastasic was ahead of Torres, the ball was his, he was in control. If Joe remained calm and composed, and wasn't a fucking moron, he stays in his area and Nastasic either heads the ball to Joe or plays it to his feet. There was no real threat until Joe rushed out like a fuckwit chasing after the last bus.

Only those desperately searching for excuses can try and exonerate him for that fuck up, it was his responsibility.

I don't give a fuck if he shouted to Nastasic, it is entirely irrelevant. Nastasic could've smashed it away, and he didn't handle it greatly either. But his culpability in that fuck up was minor. Joe made the wrong call, and his error cost us the game.

It was like Picasso spending an age painting a masterpiece, completing the final touches, only for Joe to come in, pick it up, and headbutt a giant hole in the centre.

It was plain fuckwittery.

I cannot tell you how angry I was after that game. Getting the tube back to Euston to get the train to Piccadilly. There are no words.

I understand people who want to protect Joe, but you cannot shirk responsibility. He was culpable, as he has been far too often and it cost us.

Call it as it is, lets not gloss over it.

Pellegrini will have agonised over dropping Joe, it isn't a decision he would've taken lightly. And he made the right call.

The onus is now on Joe, no-one else. We can support him, sure, but it is on him to get a grip and turn it around.

We have no room for sentimentality anymore. We can't afford to wait around for anyone.

I hope he turns it around. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Why are you not going to hold your breath? What is it about Hart that makes you believe he won't turn it around?Genuine question.

The inner pessimist in me.

To be honest, I think regardless of how much he works on his game, there are things he cannot change. Things that will constitute flaws in his game.

To be totally frank, I don't think he's very bright. Regardless of what may come with experience, he's not a thinker, and never will be.

What's harmed him the most is complacency and arrogance. There's a common theme. He played his best football at City when he had everything to prove. When he was fighting off Kasper Schmeichel and Issakson for the right to be number one under Sven. When he was fighting to displace Given under Hughes and then Mancini. When he was fighting to earn his place in the England squad.

I don't think it's a coincidence that his game regressed once he became unchallenged at club and international level.

He began to believe his own hype.

He's never been the finished article. We all thought he'd continually improve, but he hasn't. He's regressed over an extended period of time.

That, IMO, Is his responsibility. He has everything he could ever want at City, all the right support networks at club and international level.

I just think arrogance set in.

He could recover, but I don't think he'll be the keeper we thought he'd eventually be when we predicted his future 3 years ago.

There's been a lot of hyperbole surrounding Joe. He's always had flaws to his game, these flaws, such as his tendency to rush into decisions, his lack of composure, are exacerbated when his confidence is low, as it's become of late. But regardless of what may come with experience, you're either a thinker, or you're not.

He's not a young player anymore, Mignolet is a year younger and Begovic is the same age. He can't be excused on that front any longer.

The press always love to build someone up and knock them down. I agree. Part of me thinks Joe wasn't the keeper we thought he was initially.

Maybe he peaked early, and there isn't much room for improvement?

Like I said though, I do hope he proves me wrong.

How do you know Hart is arrogant?

 

[George Hannah]

Why are you not going to hold your breath? What is it about Hart that makes you believe he won't turn it around?Genuine question.

The inner pessimist in me.

To be honest, I think regardless of how much he works on his game, there are things he cannot change. Things that will constitute flaws in his game.

To be totally frank, I don't think he's very bright. Regardless of what may come with experience, he's not a thinker, and never will be.

What's harmed him the most is complacency and arrogance. There's a common theme. He played his best football at City when he had everything to prove. When he was fighting off Kasper Schmeichel and Issakson for the right to be number one under Sven. When he was fighting to displace Given under Hughes and then Mancini. When he was fighting to earn his place in the England squad.

I don't think it's a coincidence that his game regressed once he became unchallenged at club and international level.

He began to believe his own hype.

He's never been the finished article. We all thought he'd continually improve, but he hasn't. He's regressed over an extended period of time.

That, IMO, Is his responsibility. He has everything he could ever want at City, all the right support networks at club and international level.

I just think arrogance set in.

He could recover, but I don't think he'll be the keeper we thought he'd eventually be when we predicted his future 3 years ago.

There's been a lot of hyperbole surrounding Joe. He's always had flaws to his game, these flaws, such as his tendency to rush into decisions, his lack of composure, are exacerbated when his confidence is low, as it's become of late. But regardless of what may come with experience, you're either a thinker, or you're not.

He's not a young player anymore, Mignolet is a year younger and Begovic is the same age. He can't be excused on that front any longer.

The press always love to build someone up and knock them down. I agree. Part of me thinks Joe wasn't the keeper we thought he was initially.

Maybe he peaked early, and there isn't much room for improvement?

Like I said though, I do hope he proves me wrong.

How do you know Hart is arrogant?

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

 

[Didsbury Dave]

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

I would assume in situations where you haven't the first clue as to whether someone is or isn't arrogant, it isn't really fair or sensible to go with the "is" option.

 

[George Hannah]

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

I would assume in situations where you haven't the first clue as to whether someone is or isn't arrogant, it isn't really fair or sensible to go with the "is" option.

I'm relieved we've got you to champion "the fair and sensible" approach Dave ;-)

 

[NipHolmes]

I hope the spell on the bench has kicked him into touch.

If he continues his bad form then of course he will go, I don't expect the club to want to sell him and they surely want him to raise performance levels but as we all know any weak links will be removed eventually.

Needs a clean sheet tonight and sets him up well for Swansea at home which we should win and win well against being as they play open football. The game I fear is Southampton away, I can see our defense struggling against their A,Madrid-esque high pressing, need Vinny back asap.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

I would assume in situations where you haven't the first clue as to whether someone is or isn't arrogant, it isn't really fair or sensible to go with the "is" option.

I'm relieved we've got you to champion "the fair and sensible" approach Dave ;-)

You need it, George, given your misplaced antagonism towards Begiristain, Soriano and Pellegrini ;-)

 

[Rolee]

The inner pessimist in me.

To be honest, I think regardless of how much he works on his game, there are things he cannot change. Things that will constitute flaws in his game.

To be totally frank, I don't think he's very bright. Regardless of what may come with experience, he's not a thinker, and never will be.

What's harmed him the most is complacency and arrogance. There's a common theme. He played his best football at City when he had everything to prove. When he was fighting off Kasper Schmeichel and Issakson for the right to be number one under Sven. When he was fighting to displace Given under Hughes and then Mancini. When he was fighting to earn his place in the England squad.

I don't think it's a coincidence that his game regressed once he became unchallenged at club and international level.

He began to believe his own hype.

He's never been the finished article. We all thought he'd continually improve, but he hasn't. He's regressed over an extended period of time.

That, IMO, Is his responsibility. He has everything he could ever want at City, all the right support networks at club and international level.

I just think arrogance set in.

He could recover, but I don't think he'll be the keeper we thought he'd eventually be when we predicted his future 3 years ago.

There's been a lot of hyperbole surrounding Joe. He's always had flaws to his game, these flaws, such as his tendency to rush into decisions, his lack of composure, are exacerbated when his confidence is low, as it's become of late. But regardless of what may come with experience, you're either a thinker, or you're not.

He's not a young player anymore, Mignolet is a year younger and Begovic is the same age. He can't be excused on that front any longer.

The press always love to build someone up and knock them down. I agree. Part of me thinks Joe wasn't the keeper we thought he was initially.

Maybe he peaked early, and there isn't much room for improvement?

Like I said though, I do hope he proves me wrong.

How do you know Hart is arrogant?

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

I'm sorry, did he claim that he isn't?

 

[stonerblue]

The inner pessimist in me.

To be honest, I think regardless of how much he works on his game, there are things he cannot change. Things that will constitute flaws in his game.

To be totally frank, I don't think he's very bright. Regardless of what may come with experience, he's not a thinker, and never will be.

What's harmed him the most is complacency and arrogance. There's a common theme. He played his best football at City when he had everything to prove. When he was fighting off Kasper Schmeichel and Issakson for the right to be number one under Sven. When he was fighting to displace Given under Hughes and then Mancini. When he was fighting to earn his place in the England squad.

I don't think it's a coincidence that his game regressed once he became unchallenged at club and international level.

He began to believe his own hype.

He's never been the finished article. We all thought he'd continually improve, but he hasn't. He's regressed over an extended period of time.

That, IMO, Is his responsibility. He has everything he could ever want at City, all the right support networks at club and international level.

I just think arrogance set in.

He could recover, but I don't think he'll be the keeper we thought he'd eventually be when we predicted his future 3 years ago.

There's been a lot of hyperbole surrounding Joe. He's always had flaws to his game, these flaws, such as his tendency to rush into decisions, his lack of composure, are exacerbated when his confidence is low, as it's become of late. But regardless of what may come with experience, you're either a thinker, or you're not.

He's not a young player anymore, Mignolet is a year younger and Begovic is the same age. He can't be excused on that front any longer.

The press always love to build someone up and knock them down. I agree. Part of me thinks Joe wasn't the keeper we thought he was initially.

Maybe he peaked early, and there isn't much room for improvement?

Like I said though, I do hope he proves me wrong.

How do you know Hart is arrogant?

how do you know he isn't ? (in detail please)

I don't have the first fuckin clue as to Hart's personality and don't even pretend to and here's the detail;

I've never met him.
Never met anyone who knows him well.
Never read a psychological profile of him
Never seen or heard of him doing anything remotely arrogant towards City fans.


Therefore i don't base my assessment of his footballing ability on something i know fuck all about.

 

[Ray78]

He might be on about Pirlo's penalty and quote " Against England, I saw that Hart was very sure of himself. I thought that he had to come down off his high horse."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1iPfTMZE9Y[/youtube]


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3uAurHNHDg[/youtube]. I have included this one to provide a bit of balance ;).

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

I have no idea if there is any truth in these 'reports', but we don't need to be rocket scientists to realise that players seek (1) high wages, (2) trophies, and (3) international recognition. Joe has achieved the first two issues, but he has yet to convince in an England jersey,

He's got 38 caps, and you don't think he has international recognition ?

He may well have 38 caps, but he has no serious challengers for his jersey. He can make mistakes playing for England because their isn't a Banks, Shilton or Clemence there to challenge. When England go on to the latter stages of the World Cup and do it by getting past better teams than Moldova, then we can see him as receiving international recognition.