Joe Hart (continued)

[Anonymous]

And I always thought it was Joe Hart his mistakes that created the situation. Silly me.

It was never an easy descision for Pellegrini to drop Hart as it was to be expected the media was and will be going on about it. It does not only put extra pressure on Hart, it also does on Pantilimon and Pellegrini. The latter can't even do it right anyway. If Hart comes back in and makes a mistake, we will all blame Pellegrini for not keeping Pantilimon in goal. Same the other way round.
I agree with the ones who say Pantilimon is doing fine (the defensive record is much better) and there's no ground to replace him for Hart. And I could'n't care less if that situation continues. It was Hart to lose his place, now it's Pantilimons'.

Good post.

 

[Pigeonho]

It may sound blunt but it's always been a case of Joe losing his place rather than Pantilimon earning it.

Therefore it's up to Joe to earn it back, (he's done as many things wrong as Pants has in their respective games since Chelsea), instead of having to wait in the wings for a cock up.

It's been noted that Hart has stayed behind in training and put extra work in, I'm sure things like that will play as much a part in the decision to bring him back, whenever that may be.

Playing with fire would actually be to keep him as a 'cup keeper' as if a club did come in for him they, and Joe, would hold all the cards.

That's right, due to bad form. Pantillimon hasn't had any bad form to lose his place, so is it not a tad unfair to drop him for a keeper who was in poor form, in a game against the league leaders? It makes little sense.

Like I said, as that's the case for me its then up to Joe to show the manager he's won it back.

Not Pants making a mistake.

Ultimately the manager had the balls to drop him so I doubt he would be swayed by anyone to bring him back if he doesn't feel he's earned it.

And if he comes back in, has yet another rush of blood to the head and Arsenal win the game? That would be Pellegrini's fault and would hand our title rivals, the ones we are chasing, another 3 points. He might well have shown in training alot of commitment or whatever, but that is not the same as match day, when it could all go so horribly wrong. For me if the current 'keeper has done no wrong, the 'keeper brought in to replace the one who was doing wrong, then he should keep his place until he too needs to be dropped.

 

[Anonymous]

And if he comes back in, has yet another rush of blood to the head and Arsenal win the game? That would be Pellegrini's fault and would hand our title rivals, the ones we are chasing, another 3 points. He might well have shown in training alot of commitment or whatever, but that is not the same as match day, when it could all go so horribly wrong. For me if the current 'keeper has done no wrong, the 'keeper brought in to replace the one who was doing wrong, then he should keep his place until he too needs to be dropped.

Spot on ... I actually think if Joe's got any sense he'll not want a recall so quickly and in such unwarranted fashion. It's all hypothetical, but if he were to come back in tomorrow and make the kind of unacceptable error he made at Chelsea I personally think it'd finish his career at the highest level. I don't see how any CL clubs or clubs with title aspirations would consider him whilst he is such a liability.

The smartest thing Pellegrini can do right now is leave Pants in net and look at recalling Joe when the pressure is minimal. I stand by mid-January at the earliest as a time to start considering a recall and even then only if Pants isn't performing at the very highest level.

 

[Pigeonho]

And if he comes back in, has yet another rush of blood to the head and Arsenal win the game? That would be Pellegrini's fault and would hand our title rivals, the ones we are chasing, another 3 points. He might well have shown in training alot of commitment or whatever, but that is not the same as match day, when it could all go so horribly wrong. For me if the current 'keeper has done no wrong, the 'keeper brought in to replace the one who was doing wrong, then he should keep his place until he too needs to be dropped.

Spot on ... I actually think if Joe's got any sense he'll not want a recall so quickly and in such unwarranted fashion. It's all hypothetical, but if he were to come back in tomorrow and make the kind of unacceptable error he made at Chelsea I personally think it'd finish his career at the highest level. I don't see how any CL clubs or clubs with title aspirations would consider him whilst he is such a liability.

The smartest thing Pellegrini can do right now is leave Pants in net and look at recalling Joe when the pressure is minimal. I stand by mid-January at the earliest as a time to start considering a recall and even then only if Pants isn't performing at the very highest level.

Agreed. Hoddle had it right on Tuesday night when he said the position is Pantillimon's to lose now, not Hart's to regain.

 

[trublue55]

Who they are, and how they play does NOT pick the team. The manager does.

Irrespective of the potential reasons why Pellegrini chose to drop Hart, it was solely his decision, and much as the media would like to think otherwise, Pellegrini made that decision, not the media, nor Bluemoon posters.

Likewise, if he chooses to bring Joe back, it will be his decision, for whatever reasons he sees fit, and will not be influenced by either newspapers or fans. Pellegrini will make the decision that HE thinks is in City's best interests, and that is precisely what he is paid for!

 

[Pigeonho]

Who they are, and how they play does NOT pick the team. The manager does.

Irrespective of the potential reasons why Pellegrini chose to drop Hart, it was solely his decision, and much as the media would like to think otherwise, Pellegrini made that decision, not the media, nor Bluemoon posters.

Likewise, if he chooses to bring Joe back, it will be his decision, for whatever reasons he sees fit, and will not be influenced by either newspapers or fans. Pellegrini will make the decision that HE thinks is in City's best interests, and that is precisely what he is paid for!

Where have the media indicated it wasn't Pellegrini's decision?

 

[Anonymous]

Who they are, and how they play does NOT pick the team. The manager does.

Irrespective of the potential reasons why Pellegrini chose to drop Hart, it was solely his decision, and much as the media would like to think otherwise, Pellegrini made that decision, not the media, nor Bluemoon posters.

Likewise, if he chooses to bring Joe back, it will be his decision, for whatever reasons he sees fit, and will not be influenced by either newspapers or fans. Pellegrini will make the decision that HE thinks is in City's best interests, and that is precisely what he is paid for!

Yes I agree entirely. He doesn't strike me as a manager who cares much for what the media or supporters think. His job is to do what's best for City.

Still I'll be disappointed if he brings Joe back tomorrow. Very disappointed in fact because it'll be so unfair on Pants. However he's the manager and he will rise or fall by the decisions he makes.

 

[pudge]

We won't sell a keeper in January, no chance, we have no replacement, but if he brings Joe back just now, we'll most likely need two keepers next summer if Joe doesn't regain his confidence. That would be stupid.

What is stupid is being in this position in the first place. Dropping Joe with all the attendant risks for his confidence and future value for an inferior keeper who wants away - stupid is actually too kind a description for the decision and those who agree with it.

Personally if Hart is restored tomorrow it'll be the first time Pellegrini has made a decision which has bitterly disappointed me. It'll be the wrong decision, especially after Joe's so-so showing in the CL against Munich where frankly, he continued to look like an accident waiting to happen.

Hopefully this is just paper talk though and Pants will continue as keeper tomorrow.

I think that's through some suspect conditioning.

No matter what Joe does, for the rest of his career, people will always think he's going to mess up at some point.

The good he does (saves from Gotze and Ribery one on one) will always be in the shadow of the reputation he's gained.

People will look for ways to knock him now.

Through his own form though obviously I'm not shirking his responsibility but the idea of improvement, or even just getting back to his best (which is arguably THE best) is seemingly non-existent. The DM has a special "Hart Watch" now when he plays, dissecting every aspect of his game... That'll do him the world of good....

If training and the likes didn't matter then why did he opt for Pants and not Richard Wright...

 

[MCFC-Scott]

If he's going to reintroduce joe to the team he'll do it again Palace or Fulham, not Arsenal.

Panti's played 5 or 6 games on the trott now and the defense is looking relatively settled, there's no reason to leave him out.

 

[George Hannah]

What is stupid is being in this position in the first place. Dropping Joe with all the attendant risks for his confidence and future value for an inferior keeper who wants away - stupid is actually too kind a description for the decision and those who agree with it.

Personally if Hart is restored tomorrow it'll be the first time Pellegrini has made a decision which has bitterly disappointed me. It'll be the wrong decision, especially after Joe's so-so showing in the CL against Munich where frankly, he continued to look like an accident waiting to happen.
Hopefully this is just paper talk though and Pants will continue as keeper tomorrow.

I think that's through some suspect conditioning.
No matter what Joe does, for the rest of his career, people will always think he's going to mess up at some point.
The good he does (saves from Gotze and Ribery one on one) will always be in the shadow of the reputation he's gained.
People will look for ways to knock him now.
Through his own form though obviously I'm not shirking his responsibility but the idea of improvement, or even just getting back to his best (which is arguably THE best) is seemingly non-existent. The DM has a special "Hart Watch" now when he plays, dissecting every aspect of his game... That'll do him the world of good....
If training and the likes didn't matter then why did he opt for Pants and not Richard Wright...

These are examples of the pathetic consequences of the flawed decision to replace Joe with Pants in the weak minds of those who fail to take proper account his long term record of proven ability and the achievements of the club with him between the sticks.