Joe Hart (continued)

[penalty spot]

That's right, due to bad form. Pantillimon hasn't had any bad form to lose his place, so is it not a tad unfair to drop him for a keeper who was in poor form, in a game against the league leaders? It makes little sense.

Like I said, as that's the case for me its then up to Joe to show the manager he's won it back.

Not Pants making a mistake.

Ultimately the manager had the balls to drop him so I doubt he would be swayed by anyone to bring him back if he doesn't feel he's earned it.

And if he comes back in, has yet another rush of blood to the head and Arsenal win the game? That would be Pellegrini's fault and would hand our title rivals, the ones we are chasing, another 3 points. He might well have shown in training alot of commitment or whatever, but that is not the same as match day, when it could all go so horribly wrong. For me if the current 'keeper has done no wrong, the 'keeper brought in to replace the one who was doing wrong, then he should keep his place until he too needs to be dropped.

Yep, have to agree with these comments. Pantimillion seems to be gaining in confidence with the more games he plays and he should stay for the Arsenal game.If he was not the England goalkeeper Pellegrini would not have to put up with these questions from the press. No doubt they will ask him again regardless.

 

[eversince 76]

Personally if Hart is restored tomorrow it'll be the first time Pellegrini has made a decision which has bitterly disappointed me. It'll be the wrong decision, especially after Joe's so-so showing in the CL against Munich where frankly, he continued to look like an accident waiting to happen.
Hopefully this is just paper talk though and Pants will continue as keeper tomorrow.

I think that's through some suspect conditioning.
No matter what Joe does, for the rest of his career, people will always think he's going to mess up at some point.
The good he does (saves from Gotze and Ribery one on one) will always be in the shadow of the reputation he's gained.
People will look for ways to knock him now.
Through his own form though obviously I'm not shirking his responsibility but the idea of improvement, or even just getting back to his best (which is arguably THE best) is seemingly non-existent. The DM has a special "Hart Watch" now when he plays, dissecting every aspect of his game... That'll do him the world of good....
If training and the likes didn't matter then why did he opt for Pants and not Richard Wright...

These are examples of the pathetic consequences of the flawed decision to replace Joe with Pants in the weak minds of those who fail to take proper account his long term record of proven ability and the achievements of the club with him between the sticks.

JESUS (Navas), George Hannah, what did you expect Pellegrini to do? Keep Hart in goal and ignore the mistakes and loss of confidence that it brought to the defence? Do you think Pellegrini and his staff would not have considdered the long term consequences? The staff even talked in lenght to both goallies about the situation. Just look at the facts between the two this season. And keep in mind Pantilimon growing in confidence. But than again, you stated Pantilimon as an inferieur goalkeeper who wants away ... seems your judgement is purely subjective. Nuff said.
Mind you, if Hart does start tomorrow, I hope he does well. In fact I hope he doesn't need a save to make. Because in the end I couln't care less who's playing, as long as we win.

 

[burning blue soul]

seeing the two guys working in training every day will give the manager a full picture of the abilities of the two keepers. their strengths and weaknesses, if he sees that joe is now not making the same mistakes in training and sees that he is sharp and eager, but more importantly, sees that joe has better ability the pants, he has to bring joe back in. i would do the same whatever the outcome. play the best players that you have in the best games.

if joe is still to convince in training then he will sit the games out and will deserve to.

 

[eversince 76]

seeing the two guys working in training every day will give the manager a full picture of the abilities of the two keepers. their strengths and weaknesses, if he sees that joe is now not making the same mistakes in training and sees that he is sharp and eager, but more importantly, sees that joe has better ability the pants, he has to bring joe back in. i would do the same whatever the outcome. play the best players that you have in the best games.

if joe is still to convince in training then he will sit the games out and will deserve to.

It's not all about training, although it is an important factor. But if Hart is the better of Pantilimon (still to be proven this season so far), yet the defence or the team seems to play better with Pantilimon in goal (and that seems to be the case lately), than what?

I admire Pellegrini for he's a man that looks further than a players' individual skill. He's chooses teamplay over individual skill. He reckognize the skill and tries to see where it suits his system best. Putting the right players together is very important in that perspective.
Mancini was a manager who put skill above any system and trusted it would win him the match in the end.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I can't see how MP can change them at the moment unless he's seen something in Panti that scares the shit out of him of course.

 

[George Hannah]

I think that's through some suspect conditioning.
No matter what Joe does, for the rest of his career, people will always think he's going to mess up at some point.
The good he does (saves from Gotze and Ribery one on one) will always be in the shadow of the reputation he's gained.
People will look for ways to knock him now.
Through his own form though obviously I'm not shirking his responsibility but the idea of improvement, or even just getting back to his best (which is arguably THE best) is seemingly non-existent. The DM has a special "Hart Watch" now when he plays, dissecting every aspect of his game... That'll do him the world of good....
If training and the likes didn't matter then why did he opt for Pants and not Richard Wright...

These are examples of the pathetic consequences of the flawed decision to replace Joe with Pants in the weak minds of those who fail to take proper account his long term record of proven ability and the achievements of the club with him between the sticks.

JESUS (Navas), George Hannah, what did you expect Pellegrini to do? Keep Hart in goal and ignore the mistakes and loss of confidence that it brought to the defence? Do you think Pellegrini and his staff would not have considdered the long term consequences? The staff even talked in lenght to both goallies about the situation. Just look at the facts between the two this season. And keep in mind Pantilimon growing in confidence. But than again, you stated Pantilimon as an inferieur goalkeeper who wants away ... seems your judgement is purely subjective. Nuff said.
Mind you, if Hart does start tomorrow, I hope he does well. In fact I hope he doesn't need a save to make. Because in the end I couln't care less who's playing, as long as we win.

I've said from the outset that it was a wild and stupid gamble to drop Joe, the game after he pulled off a late matchwinning save in Moscow you will recall. The error has been compounded because Manuel's credibility is on the line if he brings him back while we are doing well and Pants is playing well. I should remind you though we did not do well at Sunderland or Southampton and Pants did not do well against Spurs.

I really do hope the gamble pays off because that will hopefully mean the team will be winning. The downside is that means Joe is paying a price way to high given his qualities and record. If he lost his place to a keeper who we signed in January who is better than him (and there are not many of those around) no complaints from me. In the interim Joe should be playing and trying to find his world class form again. simply because, even if he doesn't reach those heights, he is the better player.

 

[Len Rum]

Can't believe the pro Joe lobby are calling for his inclusion tomorrow. Just about the worse game you could choose as it's likely to be close and tense. One mistake in this game could shatter his confidence. If he is to make a comeback it would be best to pick a home game against a mid/bottom table side probably in the New Year, although Palace on the 28th could be the right game.

 

[burning blue soul]

seeing the two guys working in training every day will give the manager a full picture of the abilities of the two keepers. their strengths and weaknesses, if he sees that joe is now not making the same mistakes in training and sees that he is sharp and eager, but more importantly, sees that joe has better ability the pants, he has to bring joe back in. i would do the same whatever the outcome. play the best players that you have in the best games.

if joe is still to convince in training then he will sit the games out and will deserve to.

It's not all about training, although it is an important factor. But if Hart is the better of Pantilimon (still to be proven this season so far), yet the defence or the team seems to play better with Pantilimon in goal (and that seems to be the case lately), than what?

I admire Pellegrini for he's a man that looks further than a players' individual skill. He's chooses teamplay over individual skill. He reckognize the skill and tries to see where it suits his system best. Putting the right players together is very important in that perspective.
Mancini was a manager who put skill above any system and trusted it would win him the match in the end.

even my most liberal estimation puts a match period on only 10% of the overall period throughout the week that the manager will observe the players in action. dont kid yourself that all they do is dodge poles and run from one point to another all week in training, observations of them will never cease.

im not advocating joe hart to come back, pants has done nothing wrong, but its really what the manager sees. in training there may be a big ability gap, in the games joe may lose his head and pants keeps his - you just dont know until put in that pressure situation.

and by-the-by Mancini did win us the league relying on skill over system ;)

in conclusion, its actually a very good predicament to have, one keeper trying to prove he has the stuff to stay in the team and another quality keeper pushing for his place back - it may become a blessing in disguise in the long run!!

 

[Gordyola]

No way should Hart be back, just because he made saves against Bayern that most top line keepers would have made. For me the most telling moment for Joe was when Lescott headed the ball back to where he should have been but, as usual Joe's judegement was wrong and he was stood close to the edge of the box Fortunately Joleon headed the ball wide of the posts gving away a corner

 

[Pigeonho]

No way should Hart be back, just because he made saves against Bayern that most top line keepers would have made. For me the most telling moment for Joe was when Lescott headed the ball back to where he should have been but, as usual Joe's judegement was wrong and he was stood close to the edge of the box Fortunately Joleon headed the ball wide of the posts gving away a corner

Was that the one right at the start when we were all flustered and flapping? If so I blamed Demichelis for that, as he scuffed his pass, to which Lescott then took it over, already under pressure.
Either way, nothing to do with Hart, (IMO). I agree with you though, no way he should be back. He's currently our cup keeper until such a day Pants does a continuations of fuck ups like Hart did, something he doesn't look like doing any time soon.