Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[Phil1]

Well I have no idea but that's irrelevant really, I am not a scout who has the time and access to watch goal keepers from all over Europe or the world. Plus I don't know exactly what pep is looking for in a keeper anyway and I don't claim to be good enough at spotting players anyway. But I do know enough to see that Willy is not the answer to any of this. Barely any better with his feet than Joe and much worse at keeping goal. Bottom line, if Pep is fairly unconvinced by Joe (and it seems obvious rightly or wrongly that he isn't at all convinced) then he needs to get someone better in than Willy as an alternative. He wouldn't be "getting splinters" for long anyway would he, after all Joe can't kick can he?

Yep, that's definitely the main issue for me. Willy isn't anywhere near good enough to be thought of as Joes replacement. We might get away with for a couple of games but if we don't buy whoever Pep has his eye on then it'll be a hairy couple of months.

 

[mosssideblue]

Much as I love Joe for all he has done for us and think he is a consistently top notch and reliable keeper, the writing is on the wall.

If you have been at the games then you must have seen with your own eyes what the problem is (you don't get the same view from the telly!)

He is painfully slow in deciding what to do with the ball when it is played back to him, or when he has to take a goal kick.

So many times last season I watched the centre-backs split ready for a short goal kick only for Joe to deliberate over what to do and get in position to take a run up by which time the centre-backs had been closed down. So then we wait for them and the rest of the team to get down the pitch for the long hoof, from which we almost invariably lost the header from (unless Bony was playing). We would moan and boo and whistle at the oppo goalies wasting time and but Joe would take just as long with all these 'false starts'. He could have just booted it down the pitch immediately if that had been the plan rather than going through the charade every time, because that was what ended up happening. However, the plan was obviously not to do that and to pass it out short and play from the back except that Joe couldn't get his act together over the whole of last season to execute this basic goalkeeping set-piece.

Exactly the same when he had the ball in his hands after an opposition attack and Yaya dropped back between the centre-backs to receive it, but Joe was busy hugging the ball rather than being ready to release it at the point he was free.

We wanted Pep, we got Pep and now we have to support his decisions and the consequences of playing the way he wants to.
I did wonder how long it would be before we had the first experts on here doubting Pep's choices and thinking that they know better than the man who has won dozens of trophies.

If you want Joe to play then we need to keep and play Bony as you need him to win the ball from Joe's long kicks...so if you keep Bony then you need to drop/sell Aguero as he and Bony can't play together.

Nail on head for me.

 

[pardoeofftomexico]

For anyone who has not seen, these are supposedly actual quotes from Pep regarding Joe. Yes, they are from the Express and Guardian but since they are shown as quotes perhaps they are roughly correct. They do seem to emphasise what Pep wants and the fact that Joe may be able to do it in time but seemingly not quickly.

Guardiola said yesterday: “With a goalkeeper I talk to him – ‘Here is the ball at your feet’ – and about what he has to do [with it] rather than what he has to do with his hands. We have the goalkeeping coach for that.
“So we have had a chat about that. He has quality and he can do that...with time.

“I’m not saying he’s not able to do it. Maybe there are other goalkeepers with more quality of [doing] that. But Joe, with training, he can do it. With time. But his time is now. It’s not about what happens in six months, seven months.”

“Joe is a player I’m so happy with his qualities, his behaviour and what he means to this club. After we are going to decide inside the doors. Now, he is a player of us. Today is not about Joe.”

 

[moenchengladbach blau]

All perfectly fine points, but Pep's method is that he wants players to trust him and follow his instructions... So that would require Joe to pass out from the back and build up play... That's the way it is.. Joe has to adapt

I remember watching a video on sky where Thiery Henry was explaining that pep asked him that play in a certain area of the pitch .. right wing if I am remember . During the match in the 1st half ... All the action was happening was going on the other side of the pitch to where Henry was playing... So Henry went to the other wing... Despite Pep's clear instruction .. And scored a goal.

He was subbed off at half time!

My point is Pep needs his players trust.. And in Hart's case, he needs to adapt and it seems by pep's comment...quickly

All perfectly fine points, but Pep's method is that he wants players to trust him and follow his instructions... So that would require Joe to pass out from the back and build up play... That's the way it is.. Joe has to adapt

I remember watching a video on sky where Thiery Henry was explaining that pep asked him that play in a certain area of the pitch .. right wing if I am remember . During the match in the 1st half ... All the action was happening was going on the other side of the pitch to where Henry was playing... So Henry went to the other wing... Despite Pep's clear instruction .. And scored a goal.

He was subbed off at half time!

My point is Pep needs his players trust.. And in Hart's case, he needs to adapt and it seems by pep's comment...quickly

Yes there seemed to be something not quite right wrong in Sweden when Joe booted at the very first time it went near him and at the end when he of all people had to be told to go to the fans.

All will become clear after a few games and I am looking forward to the first today.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

so interestingly, 1 in every 3 league goals he concedes is low to his left, and it's the only area of the goal, other than the top right hand corner (only 2 goals conceded up there though), where he concedes more goals than he saves the shot.

So 1 in every 3 league goals he concedes is down low to his left, and he's more likely to concede goals to shots in that area than he is to save them.

Any decent analysis team would be telling their strikers to pepper him down there.

 

[St.Pauli support]

We must have the most Pep experts in the world on this forum,
Pep does this ........
Pep expects ........
Pep will ..... etc

The opposite is true.
Would be a good idea if more would be trying to think from Pep's view, empathy and all.
As he will take City's future decisions, trying to understand his view on the world seems to be a good approach.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Within the first 10 mins of that second half I said exactly this to my lad and brother.

As you're from Ramsbottom I'm assuming this is one person.

I'd have thought that, under normal circumstances, Joe would have a season's grace before being dumped. But if this is true (and it's still a big if) then something must have happened in training or between Pep and Joe. My feelings on Joe are well known. He's a great shot-stopper (unless it's low on his left of course) but has shown no progress in any other important area of his game.

 

[BillyShears]

Much as I love Joe for all he has done for us and think he is a consistently top notch and reliable keeper, the writing is on the wall.

If you have been at the games then you must have seen with your own eyes what the problem is (you don't get the same view from the telly!)

He is painfully slow in deciding what to do with the ball when it is played back to him, or when he has to take a goal kick.

So many times last season I watched the centre-backs split ready for a short goal kick only for Joe to deliberate over what to do and get in position to take a run up by which time the centre-backs had been closed down. So then we wait for them and the rest of the team to get down the pitch for the long hoof, from which we almost invariably lost the header from (unless Bony was playing). We would moan and boo and whistle at the oppo goalies wasting time and but Joe would take just as long with all these 'false starts'. He could have just booted it down the pitch immediately if that had been the plan rather than going through the charade every time, because that was what ended up happening. However, the plan was obviously not to do that and to pass it out short and play from the back except that Joe couldn't get his act together over the whole of last season to execute this basic goalkeeping set-piece.

Exactly the same when he had the ball in his hands after an opposition attack and Yaya dropped back between the centre-backs to receive it, but Joe was busy hugging the ball rather than being ready to release it at the point he was free.

We wanted Pep, we got Pep and now we have to support his decisions and the consequences of playing the way he wants to.
I did wonder how long it would be before we had the first experts on here doubting Pep's choices and thinking that they know better than the man who has won dozens of trophies.

If you want Joe to play then we need to keep and play Bony as you need him to win the ball from Joe's long kicks...so if you keep Bony then you need to drop/sell Aguero as he and Bony can't play together.

That's a cracking post. And i was someone who said going all the way back to the end of last season when the serious links to keepers started emerging that I felt replacing Joe would be a mistake by a Pep. However now that that time seems to be upon us, and having seen pre season, all I care about is having players who can do what Pep wants. If Joe can't, or Pep doesn't believe he can, I'll back him all day long.

 

[Rammy Blue]

As you're from Ramsbottom I'm assuming this is one person.

I'd have thought that, under normal circumstances, Joe would have a season's grace before being dumped. But if this is true (and it's still a big if) then something must have happened in training or between Pep and Joe. My feelings on Joe are well known. He's a great shot-stopper (unless it's low on his left of course) but has shown no progress in any other important area of his game.

I've never rated him as highly as most.

Great at one-on-ones but his spacial awareness for crosses and corners is awful, this is also I reckon what hampers his distribution as he often can't spot the player in space when he has the chance to throw it out early.

 

[TonyM]

If Hart is to be sold then to who? Liverpool could do with him but would we be afraid to strengthen them too much? Arsenal if Cech was to be backup given his age?

Everton does seem a decent destination for a gk.But will they pay the required fee.

Loads of other midtable teams would love him but not at the price we'd set.