Hart had a shocker in the 1-3 defeat against Bayern in 2013. Perhaps that's also influencing Pep's thinking?
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Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)
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Hart had a shocker in the 1-3 defeat against Bayern in 2013. Perhaps that's also influencing Pep's thinking?
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
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Hart had a shocker in the 1-3 defeat against Bayern in 2013. Perhaps that's also influencing Pep's thinking?
maybe so. but I've seen games last year where nuer had a shocker and literally gave goals away, same with ter stegen. i dont think hart should be judged on one game. his overall city career he's been great
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
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'Sweeper keeper' is what the large majority of fans are now claiming that Hart can never be (or certainly not excel at). My point isn't that he can be, but that I believe there are more issues than that alone, and not being such a keeper isn't crippling to a team. His distribution is more problematic than any lack of confidence with the ball at his feet (imo).
Conversely, IF we are to bring in a 'sweeper keeper' - it still has to be an overall upgrade on Hart rather than just for this attribute alone. No point in having a sweeper keeper if he's still picking the ball out of the back of the net too often.
I don't disagree that Hart's been stale - but that's true of half the first team. Kolarov / Clichy / Toure / Navas / Bony (18 months) / Nasri could all be accused of the same.
How many of the above are integral to the system??
It's also integral for his keeper to be able to play out, I thought we'd established this?? There's a reason he has had the best defensive unit every year he has been a coach.. Valdes wasnt half the shot stopper hart is, what he possessed was an ability to keep hold of the ball without panicking. So there is no dilemma, the fundamentals to how we defend starts from the back and not allowing the opposition much possession, you can't have that with a keeper who is average with his distribution!!
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
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How many of the above are integral to the system??
It's also integral for his keeper to be able to play out, I thought we'd established this?? There's a reason he has had the best defensive unit every year he has been a coach.. Valdes wasnt half the shot stopper hart is, what he possessed was an ability to keep hold of the ball without panicking. So there is no dilemma, the fundamentals to how we defend starts from the back and not allowing the opposition much possession, you can't have that with a keeper who is average with his distribution!!
so you'd be alright with an average goalkeeper, along as he can pass out the back ? ( which hart can do imo ).
How many of the above are integral to the system??
It's also integral for his keeper to be able to play out, I thought we'd established this?? There's a reason he has had the best defensive unit every year he has been a coach.. Valdes wasnt half the shot stopper hart is, what he possessed was an ability to keep hold of the ball without panicking. So there is no dilemma, the fundamentals to how we defend starts from the back and not allowing the opposition much possession, you can't have that with a keeper who is average with his distribution!!
I am still amazed at people underrating Valdes. Valdes was also en excellent shot stopper and on 1 v 1's. There werent many GKs better than him when he was at Barcelona and if we signed him this season he would be first choice if it were between the 3 we have now.
maybe so. but I've seen games last year where nuer had a shocker and literally gave goals away, same with ter stegen. i dont think hart should be judged on one game. his overall city career he's been great
I agree, but first impressions count. That game will have stuck in Pep's memory bank, shaped his initial impression of Hart as a keeper. Add to that Joe's most recent form in the Euro's and that he doesn't have the main attributes that Pep values, then it wouldn't be too surprising if Pep doesn't rate him as highly as many.
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
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so you'd be alright with an average goalkeeper, along as he can pass out the back ? ( which hart can do imo ).
He can't, but you're entitled to your opinion...
It's totally naive to discount what having a ball playing keeper does to your defensive line. We invite the opposition on, not launch the bastard ball to the half way line to the shortest guy on the pitch.
The team and style is about to evolve how you, and many others, view football as you can't have much experience of watching Pep teams and tactics. An 'average' keeper, as you put it, who can play comfortably, will find his way into a Pep team over a great shot stopper (which is what hart is) ....
IF the rumour is true I think it's a bad move by Pep. Will create a bit of a media circus around the club and destabilise us when we need a steady start. If he's going to drop joe he should wait until we've got his replacement. Willy isn't good enough.
I agree, but first impressions count. That game will have stuck in Pep's memory bank, shaped his initial impression of Hart as a keeper. Add to that Joe's most recent form in the Euro's and that he doesn't have the main attributes that Pep values, then it wouldn't be too surprising if Pep doesn't rate him as highly as many.
*edit* I'm an idiot, i didn't read the initial post.
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
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He can't, but you're entitled to your opinion...
It's totally naive to discount what having a ball playing keeper does to your defensive line. We invite the opposition on, not launch the bastard ball to the half way line to the shortest guy on the pitch.
The team and style is about to evolve how you, and many others, view football as you can't have much experience of watching Pep teams and tactics. An 'average' keeper, as you put it, who can play comfortably, will find his way into a Pep team over a great shot stopper (which is what hart is) ....
I've not discounted what a ball playing keeper can do for us. you referred to valdes who is an average keeper, but because he can play out the back thats alright. i just dont see the need to change one of the best keepers in the league because he can't pass a 40 years ball straight to someones feet. if your talking about simple passing out the back hart can do that. what will help him thus year is actually having defenders comfortable with the ball and who want to be passed to.
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