Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[Tom_mcfc]

Yeah I hope Pep sorts his distribution out, having said that fingers crossed for some defenders who can comfortably receive it from him too.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I think the core reason why Joe is considered worse at distribution is the following:

He's clearly asked under Pelle to distribute the ball completely differently, and hoof it longer much more. Not saying he is as technically able as Neuer & ter-Stegen, but it's hardly been a fair comparison this season.

 

[Rolee]

I know I'm probably boring you all with stats but last one I promise. Look at how much Valdes passing % dropped in the year after Pep left Barca

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/9484/History/Vctor-Valds

 

[supercity88]

Cheers man, interesting and kind of confirms where I though he was at..



Unfortunately, and I think this goes across the board, not just city fans, but we are unforgiving when it comes to mistakes, this heightens anxiety and thus composure makes 'said' player look like Michael J Fox. It's especially noticeable with English players... If there's anything that I've gaged from Pep with books and articles, it's that everything can and will be a clean slate if your buy into his philosophy.... Where he becomes irate is when the mistakes persist...

Joe isn't a dunce, he'll embrace it and he may or may not come up short, but as fans we should be prepared for mistakes, more frequent ones in Peps system, however, I'd hazard a guess that even with more frequent mistakes, his game and passing stats will improve, fans unfortunately are fickle and as we know can make and break players!!

This is my biggest worry with Pep, we've seen people jump all over Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov (probably rightly), Yaya, Nasri, Fernando, Bony, Navas to name but several! Oh, and Sterling. How could I forget. We have high expectations from players and are unforgiving with mistakes as a majority - more so on this forum than at the games but there is a spill over with certain players. In Pep's system we will see mistakes and they can be much more dangerous than under more conservative managers. If Hart cocks up playing the sweeper role we concede a goal 99 times out of 100 and then people will call for him to go, despite the fact that at nearly every other club he's an excellent goalkeeper who will make world class saves! We'll see a few tested out of their comfort zone, but as you say Pep will put his arm around them all individually and take those that want in on a great learning curve.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

This is my biggest worry with Pep, we've seen people jump all over Mangala, Otamendi, Kolarov (probably rightly), Yaya, Nasri, Fernando, Bony, Navas to name but several! Oh, and Sterling. How could I forget. We have high expectations from players and are unforgiving with mistakes as a majority - more so on this forum than at the games but there is a spill over with certain players. In Pep's system we will see mistakes and they can be much more dangerous than under more conservative managers. If Hart cocks up playing the sweeper role we concede a goal 99 times out of 100 and then people will call for him to go, despite the fact that at nearly every other club he's an excellent goalkeeper who will make world class saves! We'll see a few tested out of their comfort zone, but as you say Pep will put his arm around them all individually and take those that want in on a great learning curve.

I've been a big advocate of mango, fernando... I'd of been interested to see what he'd of done with them 2 years ago, unfortunately it's looking increasingly like they will be marginalised, more so Mangala who's confidence is shot..

I've no worries over sterling or nasri and think we'll see Ota excel.... Those 3 will be like 3 new players, throw in Denayer and iheanacho and a couple of surprises from the youth side and it's not all doom and gloom.... I've said it a hundred times, some people are going to be shocked how much a great coach (not a good or very good one) can elevate players, turning players from good into very good and very good into great...

That old **** up the road did it for 20 years, love him or loathe him, he was one of the greats, I also think the pisscan recognised it in Pep years ago..

Joe will be fine as long as he can respond from inevitable mistakes..

 

[Marvin]

ferguson was not a good coach. He was a good man manager and someone who would make the right strategic decisions. he brought coaches in eg Mcclaren etc

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

ferguson was not a good coach. He was a good man manager and someone who would make the right strategic decisions. he brought coaches in eg Mcclaren etc

Oh Ffs, hes here.... His 'coaching' was extended to a 3rd pair of hands as he got older, his tactics and team philosophy was all him... What is done on a training field isn't magically manifested by Kidd, McLaren, phealan or any of the other red scrotes...

Don't talk football with someone who is your superior, Marv!!!!

 

[Steviesleftpeg]

The only way to truly vindicate all these Hart critics will be when we eventually transition from Joe to someone else. The onus at the point will well and truly be on that player to prove that those critics weren't simply trying to hold Hart to unobtainable standards of perfection. My suspicions are those people will just start to moan about the other guy or will disappear under a rock for suddenly coming to the sad conclusion that the grass is indeed not greener on the other side.

Often he gets the blame for some aspects of his game that he is evidently not solely responsible for. Don't any of the critics acknowledge that he will have instruction and coaching for distribution? Granted he might not always get it right (nor does any keeper) but if he's supposed to hit it long but, for examples sake, Aguero isn't in the right position then he has no option but the hesitate. It may also be the coaching doesn't work the keepers best strengths. That isn't the case all the time, but you have to think of the bigger picture.

Furthermore, all this "buy this person, buy that" just goes to show how little some people understand about the restrictions of modern day football. City have to meet quotas, both for the Premier League and the Champions League. Right now Joe is classed, at the very least, as a good solid CL-quality and International keeper (you can moan all you like but Mancini, Pellegrini, Hodgson and Capello all thought that). He is also English and, to the best of my knowledge, club-trained. If you get rid of him you either have to populate the bench with kids (who may not be tested at this level) or you have to sacrifice another position in the starting XI for an English and club-trained player. We've got lots of talented youngsters, but none anywhere near Joe's level in any position. Even Iheanacho isn't classed as club trained yet (needs three years at the club before the age of 21). So who else you going to drop and what current suitably talented home-grown or club trained player are you going to replace them with? Would I prefer ter Stegan over Hart, but have to get rid of Fernandinho? No.

Christ, some people need to spend a day on Football Manager. Ignorance to the rules doesn't meant they don't exist.

Happy 10th anniversary Joe.

 

[OB1]

I agree as well - it's composure on the ball he lacks more than anything. Neuer is outrageously composed on the ball and I think his passing stats are around the 80% mark just to throw in Pep's level of expectation. You'd expect Joe to have a completion rate above 50% as most passes will be 5 yards to feet, it's the passes when under pressure he struggles with - in professional football you're likely to have someone closing you down and you've got to be confident to play a pass to feet, that's where he struggles and instead he dwells on the ball before launching it long, which doesn't work with City considering the height of our "target man".

If you want to get into stats, you have to compare the number of long balls played: I think if you adjust for that properly, Joe's completion figures on a genuine like for like basis won't differ significantly from Neuer's.

 

[supercity88]

I've been a big advocate of mango, fernando... I'd of been interested to see what he'd of done with them 2 years ago, unfortunately it's looking increasingly like they will be marginalised, more so Mangala who's confidence is shot..

I've no worries over sterling or nasri and think we'll see Ota excel.... Those 3 will be like 3 new players, throw in Denayer and iheanacho and a couple of surprises from the youth side and it's not all doom and gloom.... I've said it a hundred times, some people are going to be shocked how much a great coach (not a good or very good one) can elevate players, turning players from good into very good and very good into great...

That old **** up the road did it for 20 years, love him or loathe him, he was one of the greats, I also think the pisscan recognised it in Pep years ago..

Joe will be fine as long as he can respond from inevitable mistakes..

I completely agree, I think many of our players have suffered from adapting to a new league in a system (or with team mates) that does not compliment their game. Mangala for instance has been left in the lurch largely by Kolarov being non existent. His confidence has dropped, he's been consistently slated and unfortunately though I'd like him to prove everyone wrong at City, it's probably in his best interests to move elsewhere with a clean slate. We'll have to see what Pep thinks. I don't believe we need a huge overhaul, get the system right and play players in the right positions and we'll be a million miles better from day 1.

The balance of the side is crucial and with a balanced side all should fall into place, including Hart's role. I've said in other threads, and it's probably not worth regurgitating here - but the balance of our side has been a huge problem, and it's one England are suffering because of Woy's obsession with names as opposed to a formation and the players to implement it best. Silva on the left will not work with Pep but maybe we'll see 3 centre backs, 2 wing backs and then a role for Silva alongside De Bruyne and ahead of 2 central midfielders like Gundogan and Fernando. We shall see and all we can do is speculate. As you say the pisscan was excellent at getting the best out of players, it was quite remarkable actually. The likes of John O'Shea, Wes Brown etc looked right at home in the rag first team despite being quite poor and showing as much once they left the club and his leadership. There was a culture of winning and a determination in the club thanks to him and there was an improvement from players because they believed in him and what he told them. The same applies to Pep. I'm intrigued as to what bacon things of Mourinho - he's going to deliver in the short term as always but leave them with expensive players that Mendez also has under his agency and leave them with a stifled academy and back at square one in a few years. Hopefully the short term success doesn't come either - with Klopp, Pep and Conte in the league he's never had it harder. We shall see - but he's not a man that matches the model pisscan created at the rags.