John Stones

[domalino]

So if we had the top goal scorer 4 out of 6 seasons it would be meaningless unless he passed better?
You're basising your argument on what? We are yet to see a premier leauge Pep team. What if Pep says don't ever kick it, just try to always throw it? What if any number of things. No one knows, my point will be why get rid of one of the best keepers going on the assumption he won't be able to do something? The lads blue and I for one believe he deserves more respect than a lot of city fans are giving him

Some of the mental gymnastics people will go through to avoid the obvious truth....

Never kick it, only throw it? Hows he going to be used in the build up from the back?

 

[Neville Kneville]

Pep obviously disagrees with you mate; otherwise we wouldn't be trying to get stones and making no attempt to replace Joe; and with respect i will trust Pep's judgement on this one :)

Pep has never said we can't do without Stones, or we are set on keeping Joe Hart.

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

The lack of a decent pussy thread has often bewildered me









Also I think we will definately sign stones

Yes but does he like cats ?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Some of the mental gymnastics people will go through to avoid the obvious truth....

Never kick it, only throw it? Hows he going to be used in the build up from the back?

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Dom; the goalkeepers main priority should be to able to be a good shot stopper, good in 1v1's and keeping clean sheets

It's no good replacing Joe with someone who is good on the ball, but is further behind in the other areas a goalkeeper should be good at

 

[flb]

Joe can be coached to pass the ball I'm pretty sure of that-its his shot stopping down to his left that's a big problem however-seems to have a weakness there.

 

[twoddlehopper]

Some of the mental gymnastics people will go through to avoid the obvious truth....

Never kick it, only throw it? Hows he going to be used in the build up from the back?

You are aware keepers can handle the ball? With practice and concentration this technique can also be used to "pass" the ball to help "build from the back"

 

[cleavers]

My guesswork is the deal is agreed, but the fans need to be placated so Everton are seen to be reluctant to sell unless astronomical sums are involved, gentlemens agreement we won't agitate for the player until they have found a replacement.

Everton seen in good light, player seen as a traitor like Sterling so they can boo him, press think we have paid a lot more than we have, but the bottom line Pep gets the player he wants.

When it happens it'll be an "undisclosed fee" anyway, as it will be in neither clubs interest to reveal the actual numbers, so all the speculation about whether it should be £40m, £45m, or £50m, or all upfront or whatever installments, will still only be speculation.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Dom; the goalkeepers main priority should be to able to be a good shot stopper, good in 1v1's and keeping clean sheets

It's no good replacing Joe with someone who is good on the ball, but is further behind in the other areas a goalkeeper should be good at

But you could replace him with soneone who is almost as good technically, miles better at passing the ball & quicker to get out of his penalty area. What you lose in one area, you gain in another. Exactly the argument for signing Stones.

 

[domalino]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Dom; the goalkeepers main priority should be to able to be a good shot stopper, good in 1v1's and keeping clean sheets

It's no good replacing Joe with someone who is good on the ball, but is further behind in the other areas a goalkeeper should be good at

That's just not true, sorry.

I already wrote out all the reasons for this in an earlier comment :

It doesn't matter if he's not quite as good a shot stopper, his ability with the ball at his feet will allow us to play in a way which will save many more goals than we lose because he's not as good a shot stopper.

A Keeper like ter Stegen means it's easier to keep possession. Possession is the best way to keep clean sheets

A Keeper like ter Stegen = higher defensive line, which means more compressed pitch, which means if we do lose the ball, our outfield players are closer together, they can press more effectively, and because they are covering shorter distances they can press with more intensity for longer.

More numbers higher up the pitch also means we can stop counterattacks more easily, and a goalkeeper who's confident enough to run 30 yards out of his box to sweep up a hopeful long ball over the top allows us to get possession back in their half quicker which means the other team can't get out.

In attack, having an extra player actually capable of being in the passing triangles under pressure means we have a man advantage and that translates into one of our attackers being free and that leads to goals.

In short, ter Stegen would have to be absolutely miles worse than Hart at the traditional goalkeeping stuff for swapping the two to be make the team worse, because the way we would be able to play with ter Stegen in goal would save us loads of goals, and let us cut out opportunities before he even got involved.

And honestly the gap is not so great. In fact a lot of the errors ter Stegen makes could be attributed to his playing situation - he only plays every fortnight in the cup comps, which is no way to be as a keeper, anyone would make more mistakes in that situation.

If there is an argument for keeping Hart number 1 then it should not be made about his ability as a keeper, it should be to do with his position as a leader in the team and at the club, the fact he's a proper City player who loves the club and has been here a decade, which is the kind of player we need around and the fact he's English and pep is supposed to want an English core.



But even optimistic Hart fans must be hoping he can improve his ability on the ball over 6-12 months of training with Pep - anyone who thinks he's gonna be able to don't straight away is delusional ("he just needs more options!") or hasn't watched him for the last 6 years in our goal.

Meanwhile if we don't bring in another keeper, pep will have to put his plans on hold. Because we can't play the way Pep wants until we have a keeper who can sweep and is as comfortable with the ball as an outfield player.

People really seem to not understand how fundamental the keeper is to Guardiola's teams. Signing ter Stegen would be the biggest signing of the summer.

 

[hilts]

Yes but does he like cats ?

He's very good at gently chipping them over an obstacle into the arms of a team mate, John is a known cat lover, hart on the other hand hates cats, next time you're in the ground go to row z, dead fucking cats everywhere

Back on topic I would love to see stones here and bony to Everton with mangala going on loan for a year

 

[twoddlehopper]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here Dom; the goalkeepers main priority should be to able to be a good shot stopper, good in 1v1's and keeping clean sheets

It's no good replacing Joe with someone who is good on the ball, but is further behind in the other areas a goalkeeper should be good at

Agreed.
People seem to think that under Pep the only requirement will be the pass. May as well sick Yaya in net then, his build up play in 2nd to none

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

He's very good at gently chipping them over an obstacle into the arms of a team mate, John is a known cat lover, hart on the other hand hates cats, next time you're in the ground go to row z, dead fucking cats everywhere

Back on topic I would love to see stones here and bony to Everton with mangala going on loan for a year

To be honest I couldn't care less where Bony goes , so long as he leaves. I haven't given up on Mangala and hopefully Pep can work some magic if he stays with us.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

But you could replace him with soneone who is almost as good technically, miles better at passing the ball & quicker to get out of his penalty area. What you lose in one area, you gain in another. Exactly the argument for signing Stones.

So are you suggesting we replace a goalkeeper with someone who is worse off in between the posts but is better on the ball? That's crazy I'm afraid

If we hypothetically lose 4-3 because our keeper could have stopped 2 goals, but distributed the ball well; we have still lost due to poor goalkeeping. As I've said before a goalkeepers job is to stop goals; technical ability is nice to have but is most definitely secondary to his shot stopping, positioning, etc.

 

[domalino]

You are aware keepers can handle the ball? With practice and concentration this technique can also be used to "pass" the ball to help "build from the back"

This comment shows that you really don't have a clue.

Unless you've never heard of the pass back rule?

 

[hilts]

To be honest I couldn't care less where Bony goes , so long as he leaves. I haven't given up on Mangala and hopefully Pep can work some magic if he stays with us.

I think mangala has the attributes to be a cracking player he may need to go on loan though if we get stones, I think Koeman could teach him plenty plus he needs games in this league

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

That's just not true, sorry.

I already wrote out all the reasons for this in an earlier comment :



People really seem to not understand how fundamental the keeper is to Guardiola's teams. Signing ter Stegen would be the biggest signing of the summer.

You make some excellent points there Dom; we'll just have to wait and see I guess :)

 

[hilts]

So are you suggesting we replace a goalkeeper with someone who is worse off in between the posts but is better on the ball? That's crazy I'm afraid

If we hypothetically lose 4-3 because our keeper could have stopped 2 goals, but distributed the ball well; we have still lost due to poor goalkeeping. As I've said before a goalkeepers job is to stop goals; technical ability is nice to have but is most definitely secondary to his shot stopping, positioning, etc.

I think this comes down to how highly you rate Joe as a keeper in general, I personally think he is obviously good but feel you probably rate him higher

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

I think mangala has the attributes to be a cracking player he may need to go on loan though if we get stones, I think Koeman could teach him plenty plus he needs games in this league

I agree I think Koeman did a great job at Southampton and if Mangala was to go with him on loan, I think he would really benefit.

 

[Ajm1985]

Isn't there a Ter Stegen thread?

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I think this comes down to how highly you rate Joe as a keeper in general, I personally think he is obviously good but feel you probably rate him higher

I just don't think there are that many top keepers available; ter stegen possibly but that's about it really

We'd have been embarrassed many times in Europe if it weren't for Joe's performances