John Terry [Merged]

Status
Not open for further replies.
Enjoyed reading that as an article and the numbers are a bit scary when you start talking of the amount of earnings possible. The argument about Chelsea not being able to offer the same are a little weak in my opinion however I am not an expert on image rights and its complexities.

Doesnt the bottom line in all this rely on the fact that we get to talk turkey with the actual player to state our case and then let him decide on the best option for him and his future. We have maybe a bucket load more money and the current owners aspirations and limitless financial backup for a go at becoming a world force in the next 5 years (I honestly believe it will take that long before we are truly considerd to be at the top table and not just a having a quick dalience). Lets not kid ourselves RA doescnt have the financial wherewithall to sign the very top players however his current aspiration to spend doesnt seem to match with our owners but then again he and Chelsea dont have to match us currently in persuing so many players and there squad is stronger than ours so the aquisition of lots of players is not a requirement. I think both JT and Chelsea supporters would have liked to have seen Chelsea in the hunt for some of Europes elite players who are/were available but they seem to have a similar fallback position to Baconface in that they wont pay the current premium for top players like Eto or Villa or Ibrahimovic (our fault apparently).

So if we cant talk to JT with our offer of Money and project how can he make a valid considered choice.
Do Chelsea not want to give him that opportunity - he is after all a contracted Chelsea player so i'd say probably not if they dont want his head turned. Of course JY can force the issue by asking for talks but will he have to hand a transfer request in to be abe to do it?
I believe the next couple of weeks will see it dome or dusted either way or sooner if we believe the press and Chelseas insistance a statement from JT is imminent.
 
Dyed Petya said:
Warning - this is a long post all about the busienss aspects of football. If that's not your thing, please skip it!

Let's just look at the financial aspect again. I'm not sure most people appreciate quite how this deal is going to work in money terms, though some are obviously on the right track, mentioning the Umbro connection. I admit I'm guessing a little here, but I do think this speculation is informed and therefore has a good chance of proving correct.

Now, football is by far the world's most popular sport, but footballers' earnings lag behind those of the stars of the big American sports. Look at the earnings of the top-earning player in each of gridiron, baseball and basketball and you'll find that it's somewhere between USD 25 million and 30 million. That, in football terms, equates to roughly GBP 300K to 400K per week. If you think about it in these terms, top footballers are underpaid (and I know how crazy that phrase sounds!) and sooner or later the gap will probably close.

The reason top American sportsmen can command these huge salaries is that their employers pay them for the right to exploit their image rights, and then exploit those rights to get as much of the money back as possible. This practice in the US is very widespread and sophisticated, meaning that image rights for star players are worth a lot of money - a major component in the big earnings.

It's also now very common with footballers in the UK for their earnings to include an image rights component. It seems first to have been used in English football by Arsenal in the mid-1990s when they signed David Platt and Dennis Bergkamp and couldn't match the salaries those players had been earning in Serie A, using image rights deals to supplement the players' earnings while allowing the club to try to recoup a decent chunk of what they were paying out.

The structure is popular with footballers because it allows them to use offshore company structures to minimise tax liabilities (though HMRC is now watching like a hawk for any inflated image rights payments that effectively are attempts at tax evasion). However, those familiar with sports in the US think that footballers' image rights generally are woefully under-exploited.

This, it would seem, is the view of our very own Garry Cook. Now, Cook has an unfortunate tendency to come out with American corporate speak, which doesn't resonate well with an English ear. He therefore gets derided by the press and other fans as a kind of footballing David Brent. But if there's one thing he does know about, as the man responsible for the Michael Jordan brand at Nike for a decade or so, it's how to turn the image of an elite sportsman into hard cash.

Back in January, when the Kaka deal fell through. He was widely ridiculed for accusing Milan of having “bottled it” when the Italians’ enthusiasm for the proposed transfer waned. To put his side of the story, Cook granted an interview which formed the basis for the an article Independent journalists Ian Herbert and Frank Dunne. You can find that article here: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...to-convince-shooting-star-to-fly-1452158.html.

That story called City’s plans for the Kaka deal “a ground-breaking proposition, ahead of its time”, and went on to describe in some detail, presumably using information supplied by Cook, how the deal would have worked. It seems fair to suppose that the club is using the same template when now hoping to land other top players, including Terry.

The key is image rights. Herbert and Dunne wrote in January that City had been entertaining “big ideas of selling Kaka's image rights across the globe to recoup the £91M they were planning to pay Milan.” Kaka, the article explained, had at that point an overall image rights income believed to be in the region of €8M (£6.85M). (To put this in perspective, The Independent noted that the rights to reproduce Jordan's signature alone fetch more than this!).

City’s intention, through “lucrative digital TV and internet image rights deals” among other things, was to take control of the rights to Kaka’s image, exploit them with considerably more efficiency and ensure that the player’s share of the resulting bonanza left him very handsomely rewarded. There is nothing new in what City were intending to do with regard to Kaka. What City seem to believe is that they have it in them to exploit image rights much more effectively. In betting that they can, the club is effectively banking on Cook’s expertise in making things work - but his previous track record tends to suggest this is true.

So what does this mean for Terry? Well, let's assume he's on the oft-quoted GBP 135K per week at Chelsea and let's assume the image rights component is included in that figure (conventionally, it is). We'll round it up to GBP 7 million per annum. Let's say that, as the England skipper, he's able to justify an uncommonly high level of image rights payments - a quarter would normally be towards the top end, but we'll round that up to GBP 2 million too. He has three years of his deal left at Chelsea. These figures are not going to be exactly right, but they're intended to be illustrative, and they won't be a million miles out.

That gives him earnings over the life of the contract of GBP 15 million subject to income tax and GBP 6 million per year in image rights. The new 50% tax rate for high earners comes in next year and will affect nearly all his salary. Thus, the wages part of the equation will see him receive GBP 8 million gives a total of GBP 14 million over the rest of his contract (less whatever tax he'll pay on his image rights payments - pretty minimal, I think, but I'm no longer living in the UK and I've forgotten the exact UK rules).

Let's now look at City. For the sake of argument, let's say we'll pay Terry, over a 5-year deal (the reported term of our offer), the same GBP 160K per week that Robinho gets - it's just under GBP 8.5 million per year, but we'll round up again for mathematical convenience. Now let's say also that Cook is prepared to offer Terry GBP 5 million per year for his image rights. (I actually think he may well be prepared to offer more than that - Terry is with Umbro, City's kit sponsor as well as England's, so deals will now be possible which Chelsea can't make happen given they're with Adidas. And, of course, Umbro is now owned by Nike - where Cook was a fairly senior employee for a long time).

This comes out over five years at net salary payments of GBP 20 million and a total of gives a total of GBP 45 million over the rest of his contract (less whatever tax he'll pay on his image rights payments). In other words, what I suspect City are offering absolutely dwarfs what he'd get from Chelsea.

Why can't Chelsea exploit image rights in the same way, you may ask? Well, in time they will. But for now, it's a completely different way of doing things and they simply don't have enough time to get up to speed right now. And if they gave Terry a bumper deal on image rights now to keep him, they'll have problems with all the rest of the squad, who'll want the same. Not a situation they want to be in until they've had time to develop a coherent strategy on this topic.

It's possible that they'll agree to talks with him over a new deal, and if they do, I'd expect him to listen before committing. I personally doubt that they'll offer him enough even nearly to make up for the sum into the tens of millions he'll forego by turning his back on the City offer.

The outlook of the Chelsea fans on here who think that this is just JT agitating for an extra GBP 20K per week and another year on his deal is commendable: we all like to see things in the best light for our own club. However, I suspect that their optimism may prove misplaced. It will take a lot more than that kind of offer even vaguely to approach what City are offering. "Money doesn't talk, it swears," to quote a man I admire greatly. It seems to me, given the sums involved, likely to be hurling an obscenity or two towards Stamford Bridge in the near future.

Of course, the player may stay: in football, as in any otehr walk of life, the deal isn't done until the contract's signed. Maybe he's not money motivated at all and Chelsea will allay any other concerns he may have. Then there's the fact that Chelsea are making it as difficult as possible for him to leave, and he may not quite find himself able to take the final step to force his departure given the status he enjoys at that club. Maybe Chelsea are currently feverihsly working on a revised approach to image rights and will match our offer. But if they don't, most people, I think, would find the heart to insist on a move given the sums we'll pay.

One thing's for sure. If he turns this offer down, then it proves he really is Mr Chelsea, and I'll respect him immensely for it. I love City but in his position would quit the club in a heartbeat!

Best Post I have read here in the 15 months I have been on.
 
Dyed Petya, excellent informative post. Thanks! One thing I'll add relates to the comparison of US sports salaries and football salaries. It should not be forgotten that US professional sports teams do not pay any "transfer fees". The deals are done via player "trades" i.e. swapping players between teams (sometimes there may be a chain of teams and you could have 3 or 4 way trades), and through "free agency" which is basically like the Bosman rule. A player out of contract can move away for free. The money that isn't spent "buying" players, is available for salaries.
 
Kinkys Left Foot said:
Enjoyed reading that as an article and the numbers are a bit scary when you start talking of the amount of earnings possible. The argument about Chelsea not being able to offer the same are a little weak in my opinion however I am not an expert on image rights and its complexities.

Doesnt the bottom line in all this rely on the fact that we get to talk turkey with the actual player to state our case and then let him decide on the best option for him and his future.

There were two reasons behind my assessment of our having an advantage with regard to image rights payments. Firstly, I think that Cook has an expertise in this area that not many other people have in the world, and I doubt if any of them is working in football. The other thing we have going for us is that our owners at present will be willing effectively to take a punt on his abilities and pledge big money to players for their image rights knowing that they can meet the payments even if we fall short. Maybe I'm over-stating our advantage and even if we have one now, it certainly won't last for ever.

With regard to us talking to Terry - I think if he insists on talking to us officially, then he's finished at Chelsea. But even before then, I have no doubt he knows exactly what we'll offer him and exactly why we think he'd be advised to join us. There will be lines of communication open. He may end up not joining us, but it won't be because we couldn't make a sales pitch.

NSBFL said:
Dyed Petya, excellent informative post. Thanks! One thing I'll add relates to the comparison of US sports salaries and football salaries. It should not be forgotten that US professional sports teams do not pay any "transfer fees". The deals are done via player "trades" i.e. swapping players between teams (sometimes there may be a chain of teams and you could have 3 or 4 way trades), and through "free agency" which is basically like the Bosman rule. A player out of contract can move away for free. The money that isn't spent "buying" players, is available for salaries.

The player trades and free agency point (i.e lack of transfer fees) pushing up wages is a fair one, actually. I forgot about that! In football, some Bosman players do end up picking up very big salaries for this reason - Ballack at Chelsea, I guess, and Eto'o probably if he stays the next year at Barca.

I think with Terry, if he joined, our owners would be prepared to regard the fee - vast as it will be - as a kind of investment to show everyone we mean business.

____________________________

PS - Thanks to various people for your kind words. Don't have time to write individual replies!
 
I am not sure who raised the issue of this Public statement from John Terry but the papers all seem to be expecting it.

If Terry's silence continues for much longer it will get very difficult for Chelsea to manage the situation. Appears that they are making strenuous efforts to get him to commit to the club - possibly through an improved contract offer - if that doesn't happen soon, surely he will be on his way?
 
It's interesting how we've moved from "John Terry doesn't need to make a statement" to "John Terry will make a staement within the next few days."
 
Dyed Petya you do bring up a few intersting points but:

What your argument is basically boils down to is that City can offer Terry much more money and Chelsea can't/won't be able to match that offer or even come near it. I don't think anyone debates the fact that City can offer more money in wages than any club in the world right now.

Nothing against Cook but you make him look like he invented business and everybody else was living in dark ages until MCFC chief executive arrived on the scene and enlightened the savages about the use of wages and image rights in modern football.

City are in a position to offer Terry or any other player the kind of terms that blow away any competition for one reason only: your new owners are able and willing to pay way more than any other club would. Your pulling power has little to do with Cook,Umbro or especially City finances and standing as a club since even with your "real' budget you were losing money.

I speak from the personal experience as a Chelsea fan since we've been doing similar thing only several years ago but it never occured to me to suggest that it was Peter Kenyon's expertise rather than Roman's big pocket that allowed us to assemble one of the best squads in Europe.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.