Kalidou Koulibaly

[OliMCFC]

that is just an emotional take a lot of our fans just like to tell themselves in order to ease the disappointment of our current season, IMO.

as I said before Laporte won 43 of 50 PL games with Stones & Otamendi as the main partners.

In the 18/19 PL season Kompany played:
13 games as a starter (7 starts afters Feb 27th, Matchweek 28)
1230 minutes
Kompany only started after Stones got injured around the Carabao Cup Final.

should it of been Stones or Otamendi who picked up that long term injury instead of Laporte, then nobody would've been talking about we miss Kompany's leadership & should've replaced him.
It would've just been the fans shifting the majority of the blame on the David, Gundogan, Rodri Midfield & Fernandinho not bieng used in his DM position.

As we have seen yesterday, Kyle Walker is incredible at defending counter-attacks. If we have the balance of the team right, then we have an incredible player who already has tons of experiences playing in a Back 3.



3-4-3 and 3-5-2.

so yes he would find himself in a 2 man Midfield at times.
But with a False 9 in the line up, it would then be a fluid system during the course of the game.

some of our Centre-Backs learning to play DM too will allow for more fluidity during the course of the game.

"An Emotional take"
Mate, have you have seen how bad we've been defensively? We need 2 world class players there, we've got 2 top prospects already. We need experience back there and if we're shelling out 50-60m on Bastoni - who yes is an incredible player, I'd still rather spend the extra 20m and get Koulibaly.


As for CB's learning DM... worked well for John Stones didn't it, yikes

 

[Citizen Green]

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football/5593562/liverpool-napoli-koulibaly-lovren-transfer/

Personally can’t see Liverpool being willing to part with the type of money this will require given the climate, they pulled the plug on Werner, who knows?

 

[Stockport Blues]

that is just an emotional take a lot of our fans just like to tell themselves in order to ease the disappointment of our current season, IMO.

as I said before Laporte won 43 of 50 PL games with Stones & Otamendi as the main partners.

In the 18/19 PL season Kompany played:
13 games as a starter (7 starts afters Feb 27th, Matchweek 28)
1230 minutes
Kompany only started after Stones got injured around the Carabao Cup Final.

should it of been Stones or Otamendi who picked up that long term injury instead of Laporte, then nobody would've been talking about we miss Kompany's leadership & should've replaced him.
It would've just been the fans shifting the majority of the blame on the David, Gundogan, Rodri Midfield & Fernandinho not bieng used in his DM position.

As we have seen yesterday, Kyle Walker is incredible at defending counter-attacks. If we have the balance of the team right, then we have an incredible player who already has tons of experiences playing in a Back 3.



3-4-3 and 3-5-2.

so yes he would find himself in a 2 man Midfield at times.
But with a False 9 in the line up, it would then be a fluid system during the course of the game.

some of our Centre-Backs learning to play DM too will allow for more fluidity during the course of the game.

It’s not just about on the pitch though. Vinnie didn’t play a lot across the previous 2 seasons but you can tell he brought more confidence to the whole of the squad whether he was playing or not. Laporte now needs to step up and be that leader that breeds confidence from others at the back especially if we aren’t bringing in a more senior centre back.

Stones and Otamendi were a lot better especially in the 17/18 season for whatever reason and if they were at that level now I don’t think we would be having this debate.

Also I agree about Kyle I wouldn’t say he necessarily has tones of experience, as far as I am aware he’s only played in a back 3 for England at the World Cup.

 

[mccity]

should it of been Stones or Otamendi who picked up that long term injury instead of Laporte, then nobody would've been talking about we miss Kompany's leadership & should've replaced him.
It would've just been the fans shifting the majority of the blame on the David, Gundogan, Rodri Midfield & Fernandinho not bieng used in his DM position.

This is true, although I'd go one further and suggest that we wouldn't be as harsh on even the DMs as we'd probably have been doing much better league wise.

 

[WallyA]

Even though it doesn't show on paper, we quite regularly play with a back 3 with Mendy and Mahrez wide.

That's like our offensive phase, then when we defend we go back into a 451.

 

[Ezzy]

"An Emotional take"
Mate, have you have seen how bad we've been defensively? We need 2 world class players there, we've got 2 top prospects already. We need experience back there and if we're shelling out 50-60m on Bastoni - who yes is an incredible player, I'd still rather spend the extra 20m and get Koulibaly.


As for CB's learning DM... worked well for John Stones didn't it, yikes

If it was Stones or Otamendi who got injured...
everyone would be talking about our midfield leaving the defense exposed instead.

I'm I wrong? the Gundo, Rodri, David trio..

Laporte picked up his injury ironically because the defense was left exposed on the counter & he had to make a tactical foul.

during the 4 games Laporte played it was evident that we were more vulnerable to counter-attacks compared to previous seasons.

It’s not just about on the pitch though. Vinnie didn’t play a lot across the previous 2 seasons but you can tell he brought more confidence to the whole of the squad whether he was playing or not. Laporte now needs to step up and be that leader that breeds confidence from others at the back especially if we aren’t bringing in a more senior centre back.

Stones and Otamendi were a lot better especially in the 17/18 season for whatever reason and if they were at that level now I don’t think we would be having this debate.

Also I agree about Kyle I wouldn’t say he necessarily has tones of experience, as far as I am aware he’s only played in a back 3 for England at the World Cup.

you are right Kompany's leadership is useful. But Laporte Is also a player with a lot of character/ fight just like De Bruyne, even though they are not very talkative.

but a lot of our problem(visible even before Laporte was injured) are primarily due to the system not having the required players available.
Off the pitch leadership would not have helped much in terms of:

1)midfield leaving the defense exposed
2)inverted Wingers with inverted Full-backs
3)inability to break down a low block
4)balance of the team lost due to old age & injury

is it not kind of an insult to Laporte in saying that you doubt about his ability to be a leader of the back-line in our team? that it's best for us to buy a world class partner / a senior CB to have by his side in order for us to get back to our previous level?
when most of problem this season has been mostly because of injuries & the system?

This is true, although I'd go one further and suggest that we wouldn't be as harsh on even the DMs as we'd probably have been doing much better league wise.

that is what the problem is: it's a complex situation, that can't be isolated to 1 main position.

We have inverted wingers, which leaves us exposed when they lose the ball compared to "natural wingers"

our midfielders cannot "press" or provide security to the back-line, leaving us exposed

our full-backs cannot defend & are caught out of position often(partially because of the inverted wingers)

our centre-backs are put under immense pressure in open spaces & much more likely to make costly mistakes.

 

[mccity]

that is what the problem is: it's a complex situation, that can't be isolated to 1 main position.

We have inverted wingers, which leaves us exposed when they lose the ball compared to "natural wingers"

our midfielders cannot "press" or provide security to the back-line, leaving us exposed

our full-backs cannot defend & are caught out of position often(partially because of the inverted wingers)

our centre-backs are put under immense pressure in open spaces & much more likely to make costly mistakes.

For me I believe that even though I agree with this, it's all started due to the CB issue.
With good CBs (like against Newcastle mostly) we can press REALLY high up the pitch as an 11. The pitch is so compact that when we lose the ball the only options for the opposition is hoof it away or try and get it into the forwards in the centre circle, where our CBs just quietly deal with it and keep things ticking. But when they start to fault we become so vulnerable that either we risk being massacred on the counter or we have to move deeper.

And as we move deeper the pitch becomes bigger and then the other problems happen.
Aguero and Silva press the highest but neither has the legs to press unsupported. Then whoever is behind them is normally isolated and has to either stick or twist so they are either easily bypassed in midfield or go so deep as to not make a difference. Having inverted wingers means that the fullbacks are all of a sudden isolated, and themselves have to either do nothing or risk being played in behind (it's a 50/50 at that point). Cancelo and Walker often press and get punished although Walker has the recovery speed to make up for it. Zinchenko tends to drop deeper and get beaten by the 1-on-1 anway at a later point. Our CBs become exposed to runners, and unfortunately Stones and Fernandinho really struggle with that (Fern would have been a lot better if the team was as solid as last year), or forced into 1-on-1s. Which as we know are things Otamendi and Stones can be unreliable with.

The aim of Guardiola pressing is to have so many players on hand that when we lose it we're set to get it back (I reckon you knew that tbf). That's why we'll often hit 2 short passes instead of 1 long one so that if it goes wrong we can press. It's a benefit of going for overloads too. The other part of that is squeezing the pitch to be so small that those distances can be shorter to press. Our rondos see us not suffer in possession too. But you need the CBs to get away with that. Full circle.


I think there are other issues, chiefly to do with mentality, and not having Sané has hampered a key area of attacking variety. But the weak CBs is the primary issue. It's such a big factor. For example I believe the primary reason Mourinho struggled so much more at United than at other clubs was his weak CB options (amongst other things). We saw what signing Van Dijk did for Liverpool. We even went up a notch after Laporte arrived.

 

[Ezzy]

For me I believe that even though I agree with this, it's all started due to the CB issue.
With good CBs (like against Newcastle mostly) we can press REALLY high up the pitch as an 11. We saw what signing Van Dijk did for Liverpool. We even went up a notch after Laporte arrived.

I agree 100% with what you say.

have a lack of quality players in certain positions & we can get exposed by even the small teams who come prepared.

That's why the biggest advantage for us, in our quest to win every game is to have a full squad of quality players with energy to press in the XI for every single game we play.

Quality & Quantity. But how can we achieve that in the long run without players bieng unhappy?

if we had/have a world class CB to partner Laporte but still used the David Rodri Gundo Midfield, we would struggle. Or am I wrong?

The Key is once we have the balance of the team correct, then the true quality of our players & system can show itself.

A long as we have Aymeric Laporte on the team sheet & our team is balanced, would you say that Centre-Back is still a problem position for us?

 

[ChicagoBlue]

One thing that is invaluable, at present, is the need for some quickness at the back. Today’s forwards are faster than ever, so the “recovery run” from the CBs is essential. Walker may be a significant addition as a RCB of a 3, but then we lose his speed down the wing.

We play a system that, by design, leaves us exposed at the back, which is why possession is so essential, and loss of it, especially by the FBs is so damaging. Mendy gives the ball away too often at present, and needs to learn to be cool under pressure, but not so cool that he is sloppy (which is where he is right now).

Pep is looking for players who fit “the system.” That doesn’t always mean bidding for every world class player in offer, but it does mean that when we identify the top class player that Pep believes does fit the system, we are willing to do whatever it takes to get them.

Whomever we get to fit into the RCB position HAS TO be a world class, strong, fast, excellent ball playing “midfield quality” CB. We may have missed a trick when we snubbed our nose at the cost of VVD. However, Liverpool play him at LCB, so...

I hope we have a 1-2-3 lined up, because world class CBs are at a premium, and we are in definite need of help in that position.

 

[mccity]

I agree 100% with what you say.

have a lack of quality players in certain positions & we can get exposed by even the small teams who come prepared.

That's why the biggest advantage for us, in our quest to win every game is to have a full squad of quality players with energy to press in the XI for every single game we play.

Quality & Quantity. But how can we achieve that in the long run without players bieng unhappy?

if we had/have a world class CB to partner Laporte but still used the David Rodri Gundo Midfield, we would struggle. Or am I wrong?

The Key is once we have the balance of the team correct, then the true quality of our players & system can show itself.

A long as we have Aymeric Laporte on the team sheet & our team is balanced, would you say that Centre-Back is still a problem position for us?

If we had a very strong CB pairing (in whatever form) then all the other problems would still exist. But for me having a strong CB pairing is the best way of mitigating them. We'd still be sluggish pressing up top. Inverted wingers would struggle to press out wide so it'd be easier for teams to get the ball out from their FBs. Our midfield will still struggle to win every ball (I'll give Rodri the benefit of the doubt looking forwards though due to inexperience). Our CBs would still be forced into dealing with things more often and our FBs would still be forced into making gambles.

A well prepared and/or strong team would work that.

The whole idea is though that good CBs deal with most things so reliably we can push up and make the pitch compact. If the pitch is compact then everything becomes a little easier because players are closer together and have less ground to cover. All of a sudden it's easier for Aguero and Silva to press. Our inverted wingers have less trouble blocking passing lanes and can force passes into difficult wide positions. The midfield still has to defend but there's numbers now. It's far easier for the CBs and FBs to cover. And even if the FBs are beaten and players get down the wings, whatever they do is dealt with by the CBs later on or midfielders or opposide side FBs who get back faster due to how compact the pitch was to begin with.


I think you've pointed out actual problems and they need to be dealt with; the club can't just rest on its laurels even if the CB issue is sorted. We'd still be vulnerable to high quality opposition and errors otherwise.

A long as we have Aymeric Laporte on the team sheet & our team is balanced, would you say that Centre-Back is still a problem position for us?

Just to answer specifically, if we had Laporte playing and our most balanced team playing too. But Otamendi was next to him and he was having an off day, then yes CB is still a problem. On the plus side we'd dominate from the front and restrict teams to nothing. But short of us being absolutely perfect eventually they'd get out and be able to get at Otamendi. Better opposition are super likely to do this. Now we're super vulnerable to the counter and either forced to risk it or drop deep for a while, and then the problems start again. With City games things like that tend to happen around the 30-35 minute mark and the 70-80 minute mark because that's when our press starts to tire, even if we're pressing well. It literally happened against Chelsea. CBs who can nip this in the bud make a world of difference and allow us to stay on top even at this stage. Against Chelsea Fernandinho unfortunately was the weak link and nearly exploited by this in the first half and nearly again in the second (although the goals came via different avenues).