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Kalidou Koulibaly
- Thread starter Matt Diablo
- Start date
80€ mil for 29 year old who could not cope with our attack a couple of seasons ago, no proven record of playing high line defence and with 0£/€ resell value, I just hope we walk away from this 'deal'. People here forget Mangala was a top rated CB before started playing for us.
Whose his manager?
Mangala was a beast on his debut against Chelsea.80€ mil for 29 year old who could not cope with our attack a couple of seasons ago, no proven record of playing high line defence and with 0£/€ resell value, I just hope we walk away from this 'deal'. People here forget Mangala was a top rated CB before started playing for us.
Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
People here forget Mangala was a top rated CB before started playing for us.
No they don't because every day someone thinks this is a point that needs making.
Mangala was never as highly rated as Koulibaly and is nothing like him as a player.
I can tell you've not actually watched the bloke for any reasonable amount of time because he spent years playing in a high line defence under Sarri at Napoli, during which time he was named in the Serie A team of the season four years in a row ahead of some of the best centrebacks on the planet.
Why are so many of you so confidently wrong?
And resale value? We're trying to win the biggest trophies in club football, not an episode of Bargain Hunters.
Akpowell
Well-Known Member
See for yourself....
With all the bent refs. in the premier league how many of those would be given as fouls and yellow cards
Cobwebcat
Well-Known Member
With all the bent refs. in the premier league how many of those would be given as fouls and yellow cards
I’m going for every last one.
blueparrot
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 7 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 33,407
See for yourself....
To be honest everytime we get linked to a defender I look at youtube and end up thinking the player featured likes a sliding tackle. Beginning to think the compilers of these videos like a sliding tackle and search for them so it's hard to tell if players we are targetting go to ground too much without watching whole games..
Just watched a World of Football YouTube clip of him. Great passer but he goes to ground and does a sliding tackle to win the ball every time. Worried the number of reds he would get for us.
From the little I’ve seen I don’t get it.
It’s a compilation of highlights - watch Maldini or Nesta videos and you’ll see the same. Note that they’re not Kompany/Otamendi-type lunges, but perfectly timed, controlled tackles.
salfordbluetrue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Jul 2013
- Messages
- 4,318
No they don't because every day someone thinks this is a point that needs making.
Mangala was never as highly rated as Koulibaly and is nothing like him as a player.
I can tell you've not actually watched the bloke for any reasonable amount of time because he spent years playing in a high line defence under Sarri at Napoli, during which time he was named in the Serie A team of the season four years in a row ahead of some of the best centrebacks on the planet.
Why are so many of you so confidently wrong?
And resale value? We're trying to win the biggest trophies in club football, not an episode of Bargain Hunters.
Koulibaly and Mangala could be twin sisters so close were they in style, but Koulibaly got game time and grew as a player on all stats, Mangala is still playing crap. But Koulibaly has had a bad season not entirely his fault, but looks to have lost a yard of pace, which we need and at 29 that is a worry, he will also come on a huge wage which could turn into the next Adebayor syndrome
The last sentence shows the complete fallacy in which some posters fall into because our owners are very wealthy. Yes we do want the very best and will do everything to get the very best but you also have to remember that ambition is tempered with getting value for money because as much as football is emotional, there is also a business element.No they don't because every day someone thinks this is a point that needs making.
Mangala was never as highly rated as Koulibaly and is nothing like him as a player.
I can tell you've not actually watched the bloke for any reasonable amount of time because he spent years playing in a high line defence under Sarri at Napoli, during which time he was named in the Serie A team of the season four years in a row ahead of some of the best centrebacks on the planet.
Why are so many of you so confidently wrong?
And resale value? We're trying to win the biggest trophies in club football, not an episode of Bargain Hunters.
"Sheikh Mansour is an astute businessman, who believes you can create a value from football that has not yet been accomplished," Khaldoon explained. "There is a pure, football, emotional side to it, and a big business side, too. I think what attracted Sheikh Mansour was the great football journey, but also there is a business sense, that we can create a franchise, a business, over years, which will create value and reap a long term return." - Khaldoon 2009.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/sep/18/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-mubarak
You can talk about bargin hunting all you like but you're just exaggerating a weak argument to try and make it look stronger, when no one is advocating bargain hunting at all, just a desire to retain the "value for money" long term approach to transfers we've done very successfully over the last few years.
Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
The last sentence shows the complete fallacy in which some posters fall into because our owners are very wealthy. Yes we do want the very best and will do everything to get the very best but you also have to remember that ambition is tempered with getting value for money because as much as football is emotional, there is also a business element.
"Sheikh Mansour is an astute businessman, who believes you can create a value from football that has not yet been accomplished," Khaldoon explained. "There is a pure, football, emotional side to it, and a big business side, too. I think what attracted Sheikh Mansour was the great football journey, but also there is a business sense, that we can create a franchise, a business, over years, which will create value and reap a long term return." - Khaldoon 2009.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/sep/18/manchester-city-abu-dhabi-mubarak
You can talk about bargin hunting all you like but you're just exaggerating a weak argument to try and make it look stronger, when no one is advocating bargain hunting at all, just a desire to retain the "value for money" long term approach to transfers we've done very successfully over the last few years.
I was being facetious, which you clearly picked up on.
Of course the club wants value for money but if you think we determine that predominantly by resale value then you've not been paying attention.
Do you think the club were arsed about resale value when they bought players like Fernandinho, Mahrez, Otamendi, Yaya Toure, Kyle Walker and so on?
The answer is no, they saw value for money because they predicted that these players would help them achieve their objectives in the pitch. Resale value and marketing potential comes a distant second to that.
Resale value is the primary consideration when we're snapping up players from academies around the world to spread out amongst the various clubs of CFG in order to put them in the shop window and make a profit on them a year or two down the line.
If a player like Koulibaly is brought in it's going to be because he has a track record of being one of the best on the planet in his position. If you don't agree with his quality, you think he's past his best or that there are genuinely better options out there then that's an argument I might disagree with but I understand it.
But why anyone would be looking at the situation and worrying that we might not make a decent fee off them later on is beyond me.
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You're merging two completely separate arguments; 1) long term value 2) resale value.I was being facetious, which you clearly picked up on.
Of course the club wants value for money but if you think we determine that predominantly by resale value then you've not been paying attention.
Do you think the club we're arsed about resale value when they bought players like Fernandinho, Mahrez, Otamendi, Yaya Toure, Kyle Walker and so on?
The answer is no, they saw value for money because they predicted that these players would help them achieve their objectives in the pitch. Resale value and marketing potential comes a distant second to that.
Resale value is the primary consideration when we're snapping up players from academies around the world to spread out amongst the various clubs of CFG in order to put them in the shop window and make a profit on them a year or two down the line.
If a player like Koulibaly is brought in it's going to be because he has a track record of being one of the best on the planet in his position. If you don't agree with his quality, you think he's past his best or that there are genuinely better options out there then that's an argument I might disagree with but I understand it.
But why anyone would be looking at the situation and worrying that we might not make a decent fee off them later on is beyond me.
Fernandinho (just turned 28)
Mahrez (27)
Otamendi (27)
Toure (just turned 27)
Walker (just turned 27)
The different between signing someone at 27 and 29 is quite big when it comes to long term value, someone just entering the traditional peak years and someone that's been through two years of their peak already (long term value argument). If any of those signings hadn't made it successfully in the first two seasons, we would have been able to recoup a smaller fee than we bought them for but at least something. Give Koulibaly two seasons and he's 31, you'll get next to fuck all for him and will be stuck with him (resale value argument).
Fernandinho at 28 years old and at £32m was a gamble, of course it was, but it's a third of the money you're talking for Koulibaly, so hardly comparable. If the fee for Koulibaly was lower, much lower (£40-45m tops), then we wouldn't even be having a discussion because quality wise it's impossible to argue with how good he has proven to be.
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Deleted member 77198
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And he was excellent in what I consider one of our greatest ever performances in the 4-1 against Spurs in December 2017.Mangala was a beast on his debut against Chelsea.
Way to much for the age. Great player but 80-90 mill is way too much. Maybe 3 years ago, would much rather Jimenez from Atletico. May cost more but at 25 could be our leader for a long time.
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Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
You're merging two completely separate arguments; 1) long term value 2) resale value.
Fernandinho (just turned 28)
Mahrez (27)
Otamendi (27)
Toure (just turned 27)
Walker (just turned 27)
The different between signing someone at 27 and 29 is quite big when it comes to long term value, someone just entering the traditional peak years and someone that's been through two years of their peak already (long term value argument). If any of those signings hadn't made it successfully in the first two seasons, we would have been able to recoup a smaller fee than we bought them for but at least something. Give Koulibaly two seasons and he's 31, you'll get next to fuck all for him and will be stuck with him (resale value argument).
Fernandinho at 28 years old and at £32m was a gamble, of course it was, but it's a third of the money you're talking for Koulibaly, so hardly comparable. If the fee for Koulibaly was lower, much lower (£40-45m tops), then we wouldn't even be having a discussion because quality wise it's impossible to argue with how good he has proven to be.
I still don't see any examples outside of fringe CFG signings where it's evident that we've factored in resale value to any meaningful degree. And if we have then we've been doing a terrible job of it. When was the last time we sold a first team player for considerable profit? Half the time we write off any potential of selling on players by offering them silly contracts meaning we either get stuck with the player or we have to accept loans/ reduced fees to get them off the books because any interested party is going to be put off by the sizeable wages they're getting from us. That's been a constant since the takeover.
Long term value is something we clearly consider more and that's more than likely what would be holding up this deal. To be clear, I'm not arguing that Koulibaly is worth the asking price, I'm saying that how the club value him will be determined by plenty of other factors with resale value being low on the list of priorities.
The comment I originally referred to specifically mentioned resale value and not long term value, hence the Bargain Hunters joke.
Less than one month ago.I still don't see any examples outside of fringe CFG signings where it's evident that we've factored in resale value to any meaningful degree. And if we have then we've been doing a terrible job of it. When was the last time we sold a first team player for considerable profit? Half the time we write off any potential of selling on players by offering them silly contracts meaning we either get stuck with the player or we have to accept loans/ reduced fees to get them off the books because any interested party is going to be put off by the sizeable wages they're getting from us. That's been a constant since the takeover.
Long term value is something we clearly consider more and that's more than likely what would be holding up this deal. To be clear, I'm not arguing that Koulibaly is worth the asking price, I'm saying that how the club value him will be determined by plenty of other factors with resale value being low on the list of priorities.
The comment I originally referred to specifically mentioned resale value and not long term value, hence the Bargain Hunters joke.
SWPISHOME
Well-Known Member
Mangala was always good in a tussle when he comes up against somebody like Costa who likes to bully centre backs, Mangala deals with those types of strikers really well. It's forwards with a low centre of gravity and tricky that he got exposed.Mangala was a beast on his debut against Chelsea.
Tugay One Cup
Well-Known Member
Less than one month ago.
You've lost me.
Stoned Rose
Well-Known Member
Was very impressive against Liverpool here:
Loves a good old fashioned slide tackle.
I'm in.