Kamala Harris

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Who the fuck are “they” and why do you get to absolve yourself and point fingers?

Look around the entire fucking world and tell me that MORE PEOPLE are trying to get INTO any other country than the USA.

Then, tell me WHY?!

I always love to read the “holier than thou” crowd telling me how righteous they are while openly deriding and dismissing the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE in a country that helped them NOT have to speak German and kowtow to Berlin and that has protected them from the USSR/Russia for the last 4 generations.

Give it a fucking rest!

And, while you’re resting up thinking about your ignorance and recency bias, tell us all about this German Royal Family than runs the country, the self-appointed Ruling Classes that permeate every institution and run it for the Plebs and the absolute rape and pillage of the working classes that has been going on in the UK for centuries.

America is a big fucking melting pot of people from everywhere doing everything. A fascist is trying to corral the weak and feeble, whose victim mentality plays into his fascist, authoritarian hands…just like it did to his hero back in the 30’s when his Daddy was a fan, too! Then, take a look at the BIG MONEY that supports him and ask yourself the simplest of questions…Why?

I love the “debates” that go on here, but it is so fucking lazy, and ignorant, to watch and listen to fucking blowhards from overseas, who barely know what the fuck real life is like in America, telling America and Americans they’re fucked! (Lots of “fucks” for emphasis! ;-) )

The sun set on the British Empire almost a century ago and, while I understand the longing to hold onto whatever remnants one can of feeling like an important player on the world stage, one needs to come to terms that Europe hates you and the people you export to their shores (just bring your money and fuck off home), Brexit told them everything they needed to know about the growing victim mentality in the country, and you just have to face the truth that, without the “Special Relationship” Britain is rapidly turning into a third rate country with increasingly less sway, influence or respect in the world.

Conversely, The U.S. Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever conceived and the experiment it has created is one of the greatest achievements in the history of the world. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, and I have detailed my own issues with it.

However, to sit in Britain and talk of America as a failing or failed state is the height of hypocrisy, irony and lack of self-awareness.

There is an ongoing threat to America by a wealthy, self-styled, autocratic, failed real estate developer, licensee who has used the “money is speech” edict of a bought and paid for SCOTUS to create a clear and present danger to the country.

We are going to see how this plays out in the next few days, and possibly weeks and months, but let’s hope not years.

If it does imperil the country, we WILL find out how strong the institutions are, and whether this young nation has learned its lessons from the tyrannical British and the response that created the greatest, most forceful nation on earth.

Let’s hope we don’t have to test the people that way, but we might, and we are not necessarily certain of how it might go.

That said, these are small probabilities heaped on small probabilities, because the vast majority of those with wealth and power rely on the stability of the US economic and financial engine to secure their own foothold in the world. That will not be easily given up, even if it pits billionaires against billionaires and real Constitutionalists against a wannabe dictator.

But, looking around the US and Britain TODAY, I’ll take whatever bet you’re willing to make that the United States will be around, and thriving, long after the last throes of Empire are forgotten and the reality of “modern” Britain has sunk in for those not understanding the term “circling the drain of history.”

Give me the beautiful countryside, City, a good meat pie, a bag of Lion’s Wine Gums (and my siblings) and beyond that I’m struggling to see the allure. Maybe, you see a similar narrative over here, but you’d be missing the most important thing(s) about America if you did.

Only a fool would write off America.

Are you such a fool?

Only enough a lot of what you are saying has parallels with what Britain has been through - coming to terms with the end of empire etc. The post ww2 polarity of us v Russia/communism is over and the US is probably in for a hundred years of adjustment just as we have been through here as we became a small crowded island off the coast of Europe rather than an imperial power.
It's not easy but historically decline is the one thing all empires have in common.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

:)

** Shakes head** The level of political discourse on this thread.

Now that we agree I am more successful than you, your answer to my question about the reasons why about 50% of the voting electorate is about to vote for Trump again is that they are "uneducated, easily swayed, mostly rural, Fox News watchers". That's it? And if that is it, or even if it isn't, how is it solved politically? And what happens if it isn't solved politically?

I’m not sure I understand your metrics for success, but none of mine revolve around money, but relationships with my wife, my children, my siblings, my friends. That said, I’m not one to get my dick out in public, but…

As for this uneducated minority, the problem is the internet, social media, and the lack of diversity they’re willing to accept.

Like you, I grew up absorbing multiple viewpoints from multiple sources, and only then trying to form an opinion. Sadly, that diversity of opinion doesn’t get through today, because everything is channeled to a specific audience.

How that changes? We’ll have to wait and see. Hopefully, Nov 5 will create a starting point.

Hopefully.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Do celebrity endorsements make much difference?

Springsteen, Beyonce, J-Lo, LeBron is pretty heavyweight.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

At that, I’m thinking some avocado toast and an omelette with some fruit and a latte & espresso shot, or two, followed by a nice walk around town

Italian breakfasts are the worst thing about Italy. Sounds like you're in a hotel catering for internationals, but our experience this summer (we cycled the length of Italy) was biscuits, jam tarts and filled croissants. Nothing savoury whatever.

Espresso universally great, though.

I do hope your optimism about the US constitution protecting your country through a second Trump term holds. I doubt you're right though. A constitution isn't enough, you also need a democratic culture, and the US seems from the outside to be losing that.

Putin's Russia is your poster child: media run by Putin supporters, judges appointed by Putin, elections fixed and opponents intimidated. Sound familiar?

Good luck.

 

[Vic]

Who the fuck are “they” and why do you get to absolve yourself and point fingers?

Look around the entire fucking world and tell me that MORE PEOPLE are trying to get INTO any other country than the USA.

Then, tell me WHY?!

I always love to read the “holier than thou” crowd telling me how righteous they are while openly deriding and dismissing the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE in a country that helped them NOT have to speak German and kowtow to Berlin and that has protected them from the USSR/Russia for the last 4 generations.

Give it a fucking rest!

And, while you’re resting up thinking about your ignorance and recency bias, tell us all about this German Royal Family than runs the country, the self-appointed Ruling Classes that permeate every institution and run it for the Plebs and the absolute rape and pillage of the working classes that has been going on in the UK for centuries.

America is a big fucking melting pot of people from everywhere doing everything. A fascist is trying to corral the weak and feeble, whose victim mentality plays into his fascist, authoritarian hands…just like it did to his hero back in the 30’s when his Daddy was a fan, too! Then, take a look at the BIG MONEY that supports him and ask yourself the simplest of questions…Why?

I love the “debates” that go on here, but it is so fucking lazy, and ignorant, to watch and listen to fucking blowhards from overseas, who barely know what the fuck real life is like in America, telling America and Americans they’re fucked! (Lots of “fucks” for emphasis! ;-) )

The sun set on the British Empire almost a century ago and, while I understand the longing to hold onto whatever remnants one can of feeling like an important player on the world stage, one needs to come to terms that Europe hates you and the people you export to their shores (just bring your money and fuck off home), Brexit told them everything they needed to know about the growing victim mentality in the country, and you just have to face the truth that, without the “Special Relationship” Britain is rapidly turning into a third rate country with increasingly less sway, influence or respect in the world.

Conversely, The U.S. Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever conceived and the experiment it has created is one of the greatest achievements in the history of the world. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, and I have detailed my own issues with it.

However, to sit in Britain and talk of America as a failing or failed state is the height of hypocrisy, irony and lack of self-awareness.

There is an ongoing threat to America by a wealthy, self-styled, autocratic, failed real estate developer, licensee who has used the “money is speech” edict of a bought and paid for SCOTUS to create a clear and present danger to the country.

We are going to see how this plays out in the next few days, and possibly weeks and months, but let’s hope not years.

If it does imperil the country, we WILL find out how strong the institutions are, and whether this young nation has learned its lessons from the tyrannical British and the response that created the greatest, most forceful nation on earth.

Let’s hope we don’t have to test the people that way, but we might, and we are not necessarily certain of how it might go.

That said, these are small probabilities heaped on small probabilities, because the vast majority of those with wealth and power rely on the stability of the US economic and financial engine to secure their own foothold in the world. That will not be easily given up, even if it pits billionaires against billionaires and real Constitutionalists against a wannabe dictator.

But, looking around the US and Britain TODAY, I’ll take whatever bet you’re willing to make that the United States will be around, and thriving, long after the last throes of Empire are forgotten and the reality of “modern” Britain has sunk in for those not understanding the term “circling the drain of history.”

Give me the beautiful countryside, City, a good meat pie, a bag of Lion’s Wine Gums (and my siblings) and beyond that I’m struggling to see the allure. Maybe, you see a similar narrative over here, but you’d be missing the most important thing(s) about America if you did.

Only a fool would write off America.

Are you such a fool?

Wow.

A bit of an overreaction.

You're having a go af people who can scarcely believe that your homeland may re-elect Trump with all the implications for the rest of the world. I don't know about deserving it, but the US may be about to elect a fascist.

"There is an ongoing threat to America by a wealthy, self-styled, autocratic, failed real estate developer, licensee who has used the “money is speech” edict of a bought and paid for SCOTUS to create a clear and present danger to the country."

You can hardly expect us just to say 'whatever".

Enjoy morning in Milan. If you've done the Duomo, try Chiesa Santa Maria just off Via Torino. Then a nice caffè shakerato.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Why are around 50% of the electorate willing to put up with Trump and his messaging when it is all so clearly insane. I call bullshit on the stupid/uneducated argument, or the cult/ personality argument.

This is definitely the right question.

As to the answer? I think it's threefold.

First, the US and Western world has seen an extended period of stagnant or falling real incomes for ordinary people for a very long period of time. History tells us that demagogues thrive in such an environment, exacerbated in this case by the richest doing very well, in contrast to the rest.

Secondly, the support for Trump from these richest people (who benefit directly from democracy being eroded and the tax policies of Trump) through the media as well as other politicians who simply see him as a route to their own power (JD Vance etc) has enabled the normalising of his behaviour.

Finally, the change to social media has enabled what you IMO rightly call a cult to be formed. People live in their own bubble with constant reinforcement of a set of beliefs, focussed on a strong leader as the sole saviour of the nation. That's basically a cult.

Americans aren't uniquely stupid, they're no different to anyone else, but they do exist in a particular environment.

And this is what it enables: a fascist bully to seize power, attempt to maintaioin it by overthrowing an election, and still be supported by half the populace.

 

[blue whippet]

Italian breakfasts are the worst thing about Italy. Sounds like you're in a hotel catering for internationals, but our experience this summer (we cycled the length of Italy) was biscuits, jam tarts and filled croissants. Nothing savoury whatever.

Espresso universally great, though.

I do hope your optimism about the US constitution protecting your country through a second Trump term holds. I doubt you're right though. A constitution isn't enough, you also need a democratic culture, and the US seems from the outside to be losing that.

Putin's Russia is your poster child: media run by Putin supporters, judges appointed by Putin, elections fixed and opponents intimidated. Sound familiar?

Good luck.

Cycled the length of Italy? Wow, that's sounds a fantastic holiday. How long did it take and did you plan the route yourself?
Nothing to do with politics but far more enjoyable.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I’m not sure I understand your metrics for success, but none of mine revolve around money, but relationships with my wife, my children, my siblings, my friends. That said, I’m not one to get my dick out in public, but…

As for this uneducated minority, the problem is the internet, social media, and the lack of diversity they’re willing to accept.

Like you, I grew up absorbing multiple viewpoints from multiple sources, and only then trying to form an opinion. Sadly, that diversity of opinion doesn’t get through today, because everything is channeled to a specific audience.

How that changes? We’ll have to wait and see. Hopefully, Nov 5 will create a starting point.

Hopefully.

Fair enough. That's an answer I can take on board, even if it is still underplaying any real grievances the Trump-voters may have imho.

I applaud your confidence that what is happening won't have any long term effect on the union. I am just not so sure.

 

[halfcenturyup]

This is definitely the right question.

As to the answer? I think it's threefold.

First, the US and Western world has seen an extended period of stagnant or falling real incomes for ordinary people for a very long period of time. History tells us that demagogues thrive in such an environment, exacerbated in this case by the richest doing very well, in contrast to the rest.

Secondly, the support for Trump from these richest people (who benefit directly from democracy being eroded and the tax policies of Trump) through the media as well as other politicians who simply see him as a route to their own power (JD Vance etc) has enabled the normalising of his behaviour.

Finally, the change to social media has enabled what you IMO rightly call a cult to be formed. People live in their own bubble with constant reinforcement of a set of beliefs, focussed on a strong leader as the sole saviour of the nation. That's basically a cult.

Americans aren't uniquely stupid, they're no different to anyone else, but they do exist in a particular environment.

And this is what it enables: a fascist bully to seize power, attempt to maintaioin it by overthrowing an election, and still be supported by half the populace.

View attachment 137066

Makes sense to me. It's happening all over "the west" of course, but it seems the US is particularly susceptible to it and (and I know I will get blasted again for this) their constitution and institutions aren't helping much. Nor is the "corruption" of the two party system.

I can't see it happening in the UK to the same extent, tbh, because, ironically enough, of the unelected head of state and second house, the FPTP system, a general apathy in the population to politics and a continual third party "protest vote" option. That may change, though, I suppose.

All outside opinions, though, so Americans feel free to bash them.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Only enough a lot of what you are saying has parallels with what Britain has been through - coming to terms with the end of empire etc. The post ww2 polarity of us v Russia/communism is over and the US is probably in for a hundred years of adjustment just as we have been through here as we became a small crowded island off the coast of Europe rather than an imperial power.
It's not easy but historically decline is the one thing all empires have in common.

I would agree that empires decline, but America has never been an empire, only a projection of strength with allied assistance. Military bases and lily pads have almost always been in “friendly” location, with a few notable exceptions, and the raison d’etre has not been to conquer and occupy, but rather to stop others from same.

Englands battles of the Middle Ages that helped create the Empire…and a long, much heralded Empire it was…became a burden England could not easily contain or maintain. America, on the other hand, has sought allies in the four corners of the globe from which friends can help protect friends.

Today, some might say the cost to maintain that reach and constrain potential enemies is too significant to continue to bear. Others might say it’s too significant NOT to bear.

We shall see which way the tension breaks. Let’s hope allied friendly democracies have the backbone for such difficult decisions.