Keir Starmer

Isn't saying "Owned his own business" a rather loaded interpretation, when he apparently was a self-employed tool maker? While "lived in a posh part of the world" suggests everyone who lives in a posh area is posh.

At one point my dad owned his own business, and I also lived in a very posh part of the world for a while. Or my dad drove a taxi for a few years, and I used to live in a shared council house in Marlow in Buckinghamshire.
I think what they’re saying is that they have to be labelled in order to belittle them.

Is my family, who worked hard and set-up their own businesses, able to mention where they came from?

Let‘s face it, most of the angst is still about Corbyn being ousted after a disastrous election, or two, and the need to retain that sense of victimhood, whilst others will be Tories who want to point score because their party is no longer what it used to be.
 
He will be the next PM so I hope you're right. I've seen nothing to suggest that anything will change though, unfortunately.
I guess in the absence of any clear evidence one way or the other, to some extent we all deploy our own disposition to arrive at the conclusions we seek, and I guess my generally optimistic and hopeful outlook means I am looking to Starmer to be more radical than he is letting on because it’s what the country desperately needs.

My rationale for that (fwiw) is founded on his current ostensible attitude to the EU, contrasted with his previous stance. He has gone from being a staunch Remainer (and thereby stridently pro EU) to being pretty much agnostic on the EU, avoiding talking about it other than to (correctly) say that rejoining isn’t an option, and given the utter disaster that Brexit has been suggests to me that, haunted by the 13 years in opposition and the mistakes the Labour Party has made in alienating the centre ground, and much of its traditional core vote, both of which undoubtedly contributed to that period out of power, he will say anything, or alternatively avoid saying anything, that is going to materially damage his prospects of winning the next GE.

I think he has looked at the ‘honesty’ of the approach under Corbyn and realised how easily it is manipulated by the press in the minds of many of the voters in key marginals who will determine the outcome of the next election. He realises that a Labour Party that is seen to leave the centre ground is unelectable in post-industrial Britain.

This approach will have been reinforced by the fact that the Tories are imploding and mismanaging the country to the extent they are. I think he realises it’s now very much his election to lose and has made a conscious decision to avoid that outcome, even if it means prostituting himself. if you’ve seen the film, then I guess it’s like the part in Rocky 2 just before the fifteenth round where Apollo Creed’s trainer implores with his boxer to stay away from his opponent, because he’s ahead on points and engaging in combat with him in the final round risks denying the victory that is at his fingertips, which Creed of course ignores to his cost. Starmer simply needs to be as anodyne as possible (which I suggest will come naturally) and a healthy majority is his. I’d probably do the same if I was in his shoes tbh.

It’s a truly sad indictment on the state of our nation, and its iniquitous and anachronistic electoral system that he has to embark on this approach, but the power of middle class swing voters in key marginals is overwhelming in assuming the levers of power in this country, and the power of our utter disgrace of a press to influence elections is well-documented. He needs to play the game.

With the (regrettably, personally) reduced state of the Lib Dems, for Starmer not to get a large majority from here would require an act of self harm from the Labour Party and he knows this, which is why he is avoiding saying anything to precipitate that.

I am hopeful (although not overwhelmingly so) that once he has that working majority that he will revert to his political instincts and move materially (although it will be nowhere near enough for some) to the left, as this is what the country desperately needs.

Unfettered capitalism needs bringing robustly to heel, as it has started to materially damage the fabric of this country like never before. As a centrist, I fully recognise that, and my gut feeling tells me Starmer (another centrist) does too.

Time will tell, of course, assuming he doesn’t fuck it up!
 
My dad owned his own business with a shop at All Saints. Selling tiled fireplaces in the 50s, just as people were ripping them out to put in smokeless fuel stoves. But he'd bought a new 3-bed semi in Withington for £250 (saved up first, no mortgage) so I guess we were middle class. Just not much money.
 
Last edited:
Surely it's time to drop this son of a toolmaker man of the people bollocks. He grew up in Oxshott ffs.. embarrassing shit.

He‘s articulated it poorly there, and the distinction is probably better encapsulated in the jobs people do (which can frequently mean working class people earning more than middle class people) but I don’t think it’s outlandish for him to describe himself as working class if his dad was a toolmaker. Not sure about his mum.

I’ll say one thing about that though, back when he was called to the Bar, when our education system was organised and funded very differently, working class people did become barristers. It wasn’t common, as it’s been a profession since WW2 dominated by the middle classes, but clever working class students made it into the profession a generation or so ago with some frequency; it certainly wasn’t a rare occurrence. That’s virtually unheard of now. For a profession that loves to pontificate about its diversity the barriers to entry for suitable candidates from working class backgrounds are a fucking disgrace. That doesn’t mean that everyone who enters the profession is privately educated, but that further underlines the point, as such a big point is always made by those doing the appointment if a recruit ‘went to a comprehensive school’ which certainly doesn’t amount to the same as being working class, although the clear implication from the statement is that it does.
 
I guess in the absence of any clear evidence one way or the other, to some extent we all deploy our own disposition to arrive at the conclusions we seek, and I guess my generally optimistic and hopeful outlook means I am looking to Starmer to be more radical than he is letting on because it’s what the country desperately needs.

My rationale for that (fwiw) is founded on his current ostensible attitude to the EU, contrasted with his previous stance. He has gone from being a staunch Remainer (and thereby stridently pro EU) to being pretty much agnostic on the EU, avoiding talking about it other than to (correctly) say that rejoining isn’t an option, and given the utter disaster that Brexit has been suggests to me that, haunted by the 13 years in opposition and the mistakes the Labour Party has made in alienating the centre ground, and much of its traditional core vote, both of which undoubtedly contributed to that period out of power, he will say anything, or alternatively avoid saying anything, that is going to materially damage his prospects of winning the next GE.

I think he has looked at the ‘honesty’ of the approach under Corbyn and realised how easily it is manipulated by the press in the minds of many of the voters in key marginals who will determine the outcome of the next election. He realises that a Labour Party that is seen to leave the centre ground is unelectable in post-industrial Britain.

This approach will have been reinforced by the fact that the Tories are imploding and mismanaging the country to the extent they are. I think he realises it’s now very much his election to lose and has made a conscious decision to avoid that outcome, even if it means prostituting himself. if you’ve seen the film, then I guess it’s like the part in Rocky 2 just before the fifteenth round where Apollo Creed’s trainer implores with his boxer to stay away from his opponent, because he’s ahead on points and engaging in combat with him in the final round risks denying the victory that is at his fingertips, which Creed of course ignores to his cost. Starmer simply needs to be as anodyne as possible (which I suggest will come naturally) and a healthy majority is his. I’d probably do the same if I was in his shoes tbh.

It’s a truly sad indictment on the state of our nation, and its iniquitous and anachronistic electoral system that he has to embark on this approach, but the power of middle class swing voters in key marginals is overwhelming in assuming the levers of power in this country, and the power of our utter disgrace of a press to influence elections is well-documented. He needs to play the game.

With the (regrettably, personally) reduced state of the Lib Dems, for Starmer not to get a large majority from here would require an act of self harm from the Labour Party and he knows this, which is why he is avoiding saying anything to precipitate that.

I am hopeful (although not overwhelmingly so) that once he has that working majority that he will revert to his political instincts and move materially (although it will be nowhere near enough for some) to the left, as this is what the country desperately needs.

Unfettered capitalism needs bringing robustly to heel, as it has started to materially damage the fabric of this country like never before. As a centrist, I fully recognise that, and my gut feeling tells me Starmer (another centrist) does too.

Time will tell, of course, assuming he doesn’t fuck it up!
Very well put.
 
I’ve always thought that if you go to work to pay the bills, stick a roof over the families head and eat and without it you are fucked then you’re working class.

That’s the system we all live in. Work, be given just enough money to make you think you’re doing ok in life but then pay virtually every single penny of it back into the system over the next 4 weeks, rinse and repeat…
 
I know plenty of people who own their own businesses who are working class. Depends on the business. I wouldn’t say most taxi drivers or people who own independent convenience stores were middle class, for example.

The point is fella the working class title will bring up certain stereotypical images and Keir will be aware of it and is using it to try and sell himself to a certain demographic. Unfortunately this demographic aren't all stupid and it doesn't matter what his dad did or did not see himself as.

He can embarrass himself as much as he wants but there really is no reason to do it. It shows a lack of political nouse and self awareness. Luckily for him he is getting in either way.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.