Keir Starmer

[Vic]

He has accused RLB of anti-Semitism, when the tweet was factually correct, Minneapolis police were trained by Israeli's,it is documented. The technique used on Floyd is a well known Isreali policing technique. Amnesty International has chronicled links between the Israeli defence force and US police forces. It is not a conspiracy theory and instead of building relationships with the jewish community he has further alienated them. It has got to the point where any legitimate criticism of Israel is now classed as anti semitic. That is dangerous as it allows the country to act with impunity, it also sets a precedent that means we cant criticise other countries for their actions which in effect negates the whole point of having any foreign policy at all. Every country should be open to criticism regardless of who they are, shutting down criticism leads to demagoguery.

Even the nutjob O'Neill at Spiked have come out in support of RLB saying her sacking is an affront to freedom of speech

The JLM (jewish labour movement) is appalled by the sacking and is calling for Starmer to resign for using AS as a tool to remove a rival, in effect they are saying he should sack himself for being an anti semite.

And if Starmer really believes that it is right to get rid of AS in the Labour party, which I fully support btw, why hasn't he sacked Blairite Rachel Reeves who has repeatedly endorsed the anti-semitic Nancy Astor as a role model, or is it only those on the left who can be sacked for it?

Starmer has used AS to purge the left from the Labour party, whilst refusing to investigate racism aimed at Diane Abbot. Starmer is just carrying on the work of those at HQ who undermined the Labour party at every turn, they are the real culprits behind it, they are the cunts.

That many US police forces have had Israeli training is undeniable. But it's peripheral and even a distraction to the real thrust of BML (like tearing down statues). US police forces haven't been neutral and benign toward black people, until they suddenly got Israeli training. You can see how trying to blame Israel for racist policing in the USA might look. It also distracts from Israeli policy in Israel where Starmer might be more firm than “I don’t agree with annexation and I don’t think it’s good for security in the region" (rather than it's wrong, no matter what it does for security in the region).

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

What is it that normal people want, that us idiotic "hard" left "numpties" don't get?

There is already a Conservative party, a party of the right, a party of the free market, a party of individualism.

Explain to me what a party of the left should look like, what policies you would like to see a party of the Left have in a manifesto.

Here are 20 primers, can any on here tell me what is wrong with the following and why it should be different, what alternative would better suit the nation.

1/ The NHS should be funded properly, nurses should be paid a proper wage.
2/ The welfare state should be a treasured institution, that provides a proper safety net for those who come across hard times and it should support those unable to support themselves
3/ Everybody who can work, should work
4/ Everybody should pay there fair share of taxation
5/ Infrastructure, like the railways should be in public ownership, its a vital national asset and should be treated accordingly
6/ The armed forces should be properly funded and the services restored to former numbers, with British built ships, British built tanks etc
7/ The police force should be restored to the numbers pre 2008, law and order is the bedrock of a decent society
8/ Immigration should be controlled, asylum seekers should be welcome as per international agreements
9/ Children should receive the best education possible, it should be free and if they want to go on to further education then they should be encouraged to do so and it should be free. Education closes the inequality gap and provides the skills that an economy needs
10/ Nobody should ever be homeless in a rich modern country, Build a million new council houses, with rents at affordable rates and tenancy agreements available for life
11/ Start a new National Investment Bank, that is available for SMEs so that they can provide jobs and help the economy prosper
12/ Invest in green technology, its the future, we no longer rely on coal
13/ Close tax loopholes that allow those with wealth to move wealth out of the country
14/ Electricity and Gas provision is vital for the nation to prosper, it should be owned by the people who need it and paid for it. The public.
15/ No library should ever be shut, they are vital institutions that help educate the nation.
16/ Trial by jury should be sacrosanct
17/ Prisons should be a place that offers rehabilitation, but also punishes those who commit heinious crime. Prison officer numbers should be restored to former numbers
18/ Local Government should have power to act on local issues, the grants should be restored so that local government cam meet the needs of local people
19/ Broadband/wifi should be available to everyone and every child should be given a tablet/laptop on starting school to help educate them properly. Education will help close the productivity gap
20/ Unions should be restored to prominence, they are responsible for so many things we take for granted today and collective bargaining helps ensure wages are paid at a proper level.


OK, there is 20 things that this "hard" left "numpty" would like to see for our country, I believe those 20 things would help restore pride in our country, enhance the patriotic feelings towards our nation, because patriotism is about loving the country you live in. It would enhance the role of family and reduce inequality.

Now who will deconstruct those 20 points and explain to this "hard" left "numpty" where I am going wrong?

What you don't get is that for all the virtues above there are a handful of things that made Corbyn's Labour toxic. Corbyn's association with Iran and various terrorist groups, his clear reluctance to back our military and the alignment with the Palestinian cause to the extent the delegates at conference wave Palastnian flags. You bang on about representing the working class but does the average working class voter give much of a shit about Palestine, do they even know what the issue is all about. I doubt it. They just see images like this and think WTF.

A more left wing government would be fine by many but Corbyn is the wacky left, a mix of fringe issues and extreme policy mean he is unfit to be a leader in the eyes of the majority. Its frankly bonkers that he got 2 shots at a GE. To win power you need broad appeal and that means you have to compromise. Your list of 20 things can easily be rebutted by asking how much will that cost and who is going to pay for it. People don't like paying tax and that is why Labour have only won 3 elections in my lifetime.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

I have zero time of RLB politically and nor do i have time for the Antisemites but i do have real concerns that we now live in an age where anything you say and i do mean anything will have your opposition being outraged and offended and demanding you be sacked with leaders being left with no place to go whatsoever other than to bow down to the pressure of social media often.

Its been discussed many times but if we are really at a point where you cant even mention Israel then its a pretty sad state of affairs as it now seemingly is with many other topics in life.

We will turn into a society, silenced for fear of being called out by the judge and jury of a small few who shout very loudly.

Glad she has gone because the Labour party needs to get back to the centre ground but dont feel a retweet or whatever it was like this is worthy of anyone being sacked.

Dangerous ground and dangerous times we live in.

It certainly is dangerous times. Our politics seems to be moving towards the American system where everyone is labelled left, right, communist, fascist or whatever and that's the end of the matter. It's modern day McCarthyism - we think you're this, prove otherwise. Want to discuss it? You must be a liberal, we'll drown out your opinion.

In RLB's case, and I'm too not a fan of hers, I suspect the new Labour leadership may have wanted something high profile to send a message to the disaffected that the king is dead, long live the king, and this probably works.

 

[Blue Hefner]

I have zero time of RLB politically and nor do i have time for the Antisemites but i do have real concerns that we now live in an age where anything you say and i do mean anything will have your opposition being outraged and offended and demanding you be sacked with leaders being left with no place to go whatsoever other than to bow down to the pressure of social media often.

Its been discussed many times but if we are really at a point where you cant even mention Israel then its a pretty sad state of affairs as it now seemingly is with many other topics in life.

We will turn into a society, silenced for fear of being called out by the judge and jury of a small few who shout very loudly.

Glad she has gone because the Labour party needs to get back to the centre ground but dont feel a retweet or whatever it was like this is worthy of anyone being sacked.

Dangerous ground and dangerous times we live in.

If she was sharing articles which contained antisemitic conspiracy theories as Starmer said then she deserves to go

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Fuck me I didn’t realise what a nutter Maxine Peake is, I used to like her.

This is what she thinks of Britain and RLB agrees with her :



That’s not even getting on to antisemitism.

Fucking good riddance.

Fucking actress mate, all massively overpaid no nothing moralising, virtue signalling
tossers with no clue whatsoever about the British people. Hugh Grant, Steve Coogan,
Emma Thompson, the list of them is endless.

 

[Tb1981]

And your answer sort of proves why the Labour party is finished, even rational decent ideas on how to improve the lives of the many are dismissed so easily.

Starmer wont fight for the ordinary man on the street, he cant, because you have just proved it cannot be done. We live in a society dominated by myth, the land of 50ft TV screens, the guy who has never worked a day in his life because his budgie died, the scrounger narrative. Its rampant individualism and the constant demonization of the working class hasn't come from me, I want what is best for the working class because I am working class. The greatest con trick of all is the capitalists convincing the working class to vote against their own interests time after time after time, that only works by demonization of the working class and promulgation of the scrounger narrative. Its not an accident this is commonplace, its designed to do so, its manipulative and it works, it keeps the working class in a box where they belong, the underlings of the capitalist class.

As an electorate we get what we deserve, sadly as much as it pains me to say it, the electorate deserve Johnson.

We all know people who abuse the system
It’s not a myth if you see it with your own eyes
Labour come across (whether rightly or wrongly) as being more interested in those people than the working class.
It’s like the old working class is now middle class and working class now is unemployed!
If labour came across as trying to improve the lives of the working class they would be better served
They are too busy telling us why our lives are shit (the Tory’s)
I want to vote labour but I won’t T the moment

 

[BobKowalski]

He has accused RLB of anti-Semitism, when the tweet was factually correct, Minneapolis police were trained by Israeli's,it is documented. The technique used on Floyd is a well known Isreali policing technique. Amnesty International has chronicled links between the Israeli defence force and US police forces. It is not a conspiracy theory and instead of building relationships with the jewish community he has further alienated them. It has got to the point where any legitimate criticism of Israel is now classed as anti semitic. That is dangerous as it allows the country to act with impunity, it also sets a precedent that means we cant criticise other countries for their actions which in effect negates the whole point of having any foreign policy at all. Every country should be open to criticism regardless of who they are, shutting down criticism leads to demagoguery.

Even the nutjob O'Neill at Spiked have come out in support of RLB saying her sacking is an affront to freedom of speech

The JLM (jewish labour movement) is appalled by the sacking and is calling for Starmer to resign for using AS as a tool to remove a rival, in effect they are saying he should sack himself for being an anti semite.

And if Starmer really believes that it is right to get rid of AS in the Labour party, which I fully support btw, why hasn't he sacked Blairite Rachel Reeves who has repeatedly endorsed the anti-semitic Nancy Astor as a role model, or is it only those on the left who can be sacked for it?

Starmer has used AS to purge the left from the Labour party, whilst refusing to investigate racism aimed at Diane Abbot. Starmer is just carrying on the work of those at HQ who undermined the Labour party at every turn, they are the real culprits behind it, they are the cunts.

RLB endorsed an article that initially contained standard ‘Jews are the root of all evil’ tropes. Why bring Israel into it? Because the inference initially was until Minneapolis police turned up for training from Israel security forces they would never have done this. It’s back to this centuries old thinking that Jews exert a malign influence blah, blah. It’s thinking on a par with burning witches.

RLB was a talentless twat who got shit canned for being a talentless twat who couldn’t even spot an anti-Semitic trope when she read it. I mean it’s not fucking hard is it?

 

[Ban-jani]

It’s not just the accusation of antisemitism within the message of the article.

Peake also said our country was ran by fascist dictators and RLB thinks she’s a diamond for saying that?

It really is nuts.

I wouldn’t begrudge a traditional socialist Labour Party, based on the views of Attlee.

Not saying I’d vote for it but I may be persuaded based on social values.

What it became, and still is really, is a pool of socialist views, mixed with anti British sentiment and radical identity politics.

Your white van man in Yorkshire doesn’t give a fuck about gender pronouns and doesn’t believe non binary is a thing.

He also is patriotic and doesn’t like Britain’s enemies.

 

[Ban-jani]

RLB endorsed an article that initially contained standard ‘Jews are the root of all evil’ tropes. Why bring Israel into it? Because the inference initially was until Minneapolis police turned up for training from Israel security forces they would never have done this. It’s back to this centuries old thinking that Jews exert a malign influence blah, blah. It’s thinking on a par with burning witches.

RLB was a talentless twat who got shit canned for being a talentless twat who couldn’t even spot an anti-Semitic trope when she read it. I mean it’s not fucking hard is it?

If you can spot it anyone can ;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

We all know people who abuse the system
It’s not a myth if you see it with your own eyes
Labour come across (whether rightly or wrongly) as being more interested in those people than the working class.
It’s like the old working class is now middle class and working class now is unemployed!
If labour came across as trying to improve the lives of the working class they would be better served
They are too busy telling us why our lives are shit (the Tory’s)
I want to vote labour but I won’t T the moment

Yeah. Most of them are fucking Tories. Like Desmond getting his Minister mate to screw Tower Hamlets out of £45m. You get one lot screwing the country out of billions while you wet your pants over Sharon fiddling the social for an extra £40 a week.

The conned are always the last to know they are being conned.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Peake also said our country was ran by fascist dictators and RLB thinks she’s a diamond for saying that?

Peake, and her ilk, should stick to the pretend industry that employs them.

I wouldn’t begrudge a traditional socialist Labour Party, based on the views of Attlee.

Very good point, there was, then the 'Working Class,' when Tradesmen nowadays can
pull in a grand a week, that descriptive is now redundant. Plus Atlee,
even then, was a one hit wonder.

What it became, and still is really, is a pool of socialist views, mixed with anti British sentiment and radical identity politics.

The most vocal are almost always employed in the public sector, own property,
live in leafy areas, and are never affected by the problems their views produce,
when implemented

Your white van man in Yorkshire doesn’t give a fuck about gender pronouns and doesn’t believe non binary is a thing.

He also is patriotic and doesn’t like Britain’s enemies.

The Labour voters of the past, that returned majorities, were mostly Royalists,
supported the armed forces, and respected the police. Speak to the recent red
wall turncoats and you find the same qualities, this Labour still
hasn't realised that.

 

[Ban-jani]

Peake, and her ilk, should stick to the pretend industry that employs them.


Very good point, there was, then the 'Working Class,' when Tradesmen nowadays can
pull in a grand a week, that descriptive is now redundant. Plus Atlee,
even then, was a one hit wonder.


The most vocal are almost always employed in the public sector, own property,
live in leafy areas, and are never affected by the problems their views produce,
when implemented


The Labour voters of the past, that returned majorities, were mostly Royalists,
supported the armed forces, and respected the police. Speak to the recent red
wall turncoats and you find the same qualities, this Labour still
hasn't realised that.

Don’t disagree with any of that.

The point in tradesman is a good one.

A decent tradesman can earn a very decent salary these days and doesn’t need to rely on a union.

 

[BobKowalski]

Peake, and her ilk, should stick to the pretend industry that employs them.

That ‘pretend industry’ earns billions in revenue and is one of the few industries we are very good at. Sneering anti-intellectualism is a far bigger problem and has caused more harm to this country than Peake ever has or will.

 

[Tb1981]

Yeah. Most of them are fucking Tories. Like Desmond getting his Minister mate to screw Tower Hamlets out of £45m. You get one lot screwing the country out of billions while you wet your pants over Sharon fiddling the social for an extra £40 a week.

The conned are always the last to know they are being conned.

See bob you work on a different level to me and most people who may vote labour but don’t (or the conned)
We’re only arsed about people down at our level and whether things are fair and how things can be improved in our lives
We leave it to people like you to deal with the high level high finance issues dogging the nation.
We just want food drink family and football
People like you are too busy blaming Tory’s and don’t actually try to persuade people why to vote labour.
We’re all thick and easily conned.....
Maybe your views just don’t relate to us

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Don’t disagree with any of that.

The point in tradesman is a good one.

A decent tradesman can earn a very decent salary these days and doesn’t need to rely on a union.

Unions, again, are overwhelmingly attached to the public sector, there
is now no appetite or enthusiasm for them amongst ordinary folk. Labour are struggling
to get their message across because of an obsession, and it's an obsession that's
echoed on here, with 'The Working Class.' It's because they feel the need to be offering
assistance to whom they perceive as a majority, but these people are not now
the same people of 40-50 years ago, and constantly telling them everything is shit
when it patently isn't, is why they keep losing.
Now, Starmers statement, posted some time back, is Jezza MK2, or not
far off it, I'd not seen it, I doubt many have, but with that as a manifesto,
I believe the problems remain.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

That ‘pretend industry’ earns billions in revenue and is one of the few industries we are very good at. Sneering anti-intellectualism is a far bigger problem and has caused more harm to this country than Peake ever has or will.

And sneering luvvies like her and the rest of them have done your party
up like a kipper. Just listen to some of the interviews and comments
from before the GE, these people are mocked and derided, and justly so.

 

[blueinsa]

That ‘pretend industry’ earns billions in revenue and is one of the few industries we are very good at. Sneering anti-intellectualism is a far bigger problem and has caused more harm to this country than Peake ever has or will.

Sneering is a bit of a common theme for those who fail to get their messages across to the majority in this country.

 

[urban genie]

I think a decade of Blair would be fine
(Obviously without the Iraq war)
I think he did a lot of good

New labour did do some good things , but most were done by using quick fix ideas like tax credits or asbos rather than trying to rebuild areas devastated by de-indutrialisation and years of Thatchers change to society.

Nearly all the achievements were easily and quickly undone by cameron because no long term planning was achieved.

Also instead of investment and rebuilding places like thw north he rellied on shifting us to a financial services based economy rather than a mixed one and rellied on private investment on public service, something that has bit our health, transport and education services hard.

Only two PMs have really effected long term change to this country post war Attlee and Thatcher other legacies have been quicky reversed.

Blair is only really remembered now because of Iraq

 

[mackenzie]

Don’t disagree with any of that.

The point in tradesman is a good one.

A decent tradesman can earn a very decent salary these days and doesn’t need to rely on a union.

Do you remember a poster called Blueboy85 (or something like that)? Used to post a lot about 10 years ago. He used to go on about his trade and how he didn't need to be in a union; until his employer did something he was angry about and he came on here for advice. The sodding irony! Lol

 

[Ban-jani]

Do you remember a poster called Blueboy85 (or something like that)? Used to post a lot about 10 years ago. He used to go on about his trade and how he didn't need to be in a union; until his employer did something he was angry about and he came on here for advice. The sodding irony! Lol

I do remember him.

There needs to be employment tribunals for sure, when anyone is treated like shit but I don’t believe there’s a need for unions to run the show anymore, I think they abused their power too.

Most tradesman are self employed anyway these days.