Keir Starmer

[Resurrection Joe...]

There was a time when working late, or at a weekend would have been classed as unsocial. God forbid people wanting to see their kids.

Phoning up some poor sod up at night when the footy is about to start over a sodding bin or even in the private sector missing an anniversary over a loaf of bread at 2am is not progress.

Society has declared that we are now a 24/7 working environment.

Really I'm part of society no one asked me? Who was it?

Mainly people who work Mon to Fri.

Boss " can you work Saturday Hilts"

"Nah mate I have a life"

" we are desperate"

"You do it then"

"It's not my job"

"It's not mine either on a Saturday or after 40yrs, ttfn"


God my employees are so lazy, why won't they work more so I don't have to.

yup...''we need to get this out tomorow,....me..'so, call the night guy'

 

[Chippy_boy]

There was a time when working late, or at a weekend would have been classed as unsocial. God forbid people wanting to see their kids.

Phoning up some poor sod up at night when the footy is about to start over a sodding bin or even in the private sector missing an anniversary over a loaf of bread at 2am is not progress.

Society has declared that we are now a 24/7 working environment.

Really I'm part of society no one asked me? Who was it?

Mainly people who work Mon to Fri.

Boss " can you work Saturday Hilts"

"Nah mate I have a life"

" we are desperate"

"You do it then"

"It's not my job"

"It's not mine either on a Saturday or after 40yrs, ttfn"


God my employees are so lazy, why won't they work more so I don't have to.

We're focussing too much on a specific, but I was making a general point. Perhaps competition in a different context just produces a better product, or a cheaper product, rather than longer hours.

I am not dogmatic about it. There's a place for privatization and a place for public ownership. Genuinely, I don't really give a toss if the product/service I receive is delivered by a public or private organization - it's irrelevant to me. But what I do want is high quality, and without getting stung for it. IMO, that more often is achieved through the private sector, but if someone can convince me that the public sector can do as well or better for the same or less, I am all for it. Sadly, my experience of public sector organizations is typically that the service is rubbish. Whether is the police who can't be arsed to turn up after a burglary, to the GP surgery being shut when you need it, to the council wasting millions on some cycle lane that no-one asked for, only to have to take it out again when they realised it was unsafe for two oncoming lorries (true story). It's wall-to-wall rubbish.

 

[hilts]

We're focussing too much on a specific, but I was making a general point. Perhaps competition in a different context just produces a better product, or a cheaper product, rather than longer hours.

I am not dogmatic about it. There's a place for privatization and a place for public ownership. Genuinely, I don't really give a toss if the product/service I receive is delivered by a public or private organization - it's irrelevant to me. But what I do want is high quality, and without getting stung for it. IMO, that more often is achieved through the private sector, but if someone can convince me that the public sector can do as well or better for the same or less, I am all for it.

In terms of sickness and protections the public sector has more waste I agree. In terms of actually doing the job correctly and in the most productive way I'm not so sure tbh.

 

[mackenzie]

There was a time when working late, or at a weekend would have been classed as unsocial. God forbid people wanting to see their kids.

Phoning up some poor sod up at night when the footy is about to start over a sodding bin or even in the private sector missing an anniversary over a loaf of bread at 2am is not progress.

Society has declared that we are now a 24/7 working environment.

Really I'm part of society no one asked me? Who was it?

Mainly people who work Mon to Fri.

Boss " can you work Saturday Hilts"

"Nah mate I have a life"

" we are desperate"

"You do it then"

"It's not my job"

"It's not mine either on a Saturday or after 40yrs, ttfn"


God my employees are so lazy, why won't they work more so I don't have to.

My employer now insists on new employees signing up to a contract that includes working into the early evenings and Saturdays (on a rota).
I didn't sign up to it and am still on the old contract. Even the slightly better pay wasn't worth it (for me, anyway).

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Show me a list of the successful far left socialist economies over the past 120 years and you might have a point.

Oh wait, there aren't any.

Show me any examples of successful far right entirely free market economies over the past 120 years and you might have a point.

Oh wait, there aren't any.

See it's easy to argue against a bullshit strawman. But you literally had a list of shit you think the government should run earlier in the thread. So even you don't believe your own bollocks.

 

[mancityvstoke]

Easy words, but in what way specifically? Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of privatization of everything, and e.g. water companies is a big problem because you can hardly switch water providers. When you have to rely upon a regulator, it's probably not a great start.

But comparing for example, electricity supply pre and post privatization, in what way is it "a disaster" now compared to how it was before?

I remember when it took 6 weeks minimum to get a new phone line connected by the GPO. How wonderful was that? It was fucking awful. Now, the service is miles better.

My local GP surgery is shut on a saturday and shut on a sunday. Good luck if you are ill at the weekend. What sort of "service" is that. And when Jeremy Hunt tried to change it, they all threatened to strike. M&S cannot shut on a Saturday or Sunday, can it. My local garage - a little independent with like 3 mechanics, manages to be open on Saturday, so why can't my GP surgery? It's because they don't give a toss. They get paid whether they open or not, so they'd rather play golf. Wouldn't we all.



It's dangerous to get too hung up on specifics. I tried to answer as a generality and give an example that's all. In that specific example, it might be great if the council arranged a rota system so they could provide extended hours of cover, so the public could access services and more convenient times, perhaps?

You can't seriously say that energy prices wouldn't be cheaper possibly with a not for profit aspect? Prices don't seem that much different between companies either. Looks like a rip off to me.

Also what about reports of fatalities since privatisation took place on railways apart from the shit service.

Privatization and Multi-Fatality Disasters: A Causal Connection Exposing Both Worker and Citizen Health and Safety Failures in the UK? - PMC

Although several countries have experienced large-scale privatization initiatives, relatively little is known about the impact of these initiatives on the health and safety of workers and resident populations. Examining data on technical (as ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You're right about the water disaster.

Telecommunications has plenty of competition so I agree that worked.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

To be specific, I'd have to give it a lot more thought to craft my reply and it would inevitably be a long post that is too boring to read.

So I will answer more generally, but with specific examples. I am passionately of the belief that competition is the key to continual improvement. Whether that "improvement" means lower cost, increased output, better quality, improved features - whatever - that can vary. Sometimes it's all of the above, but competition drives organizations to be "better", or else they lose out to their competitors.

How this manifests itself is people, and organizations, working harder. Now of course we are talking generalizations here, and there are millions of people in the public sector who work incredibly hard. But as a general rule, there are behaviours I see in the private sector that I do not see in the public sector. I see Tesco being open 7 dayas a week and in some cases, 24 hours, as just one example. Is it more cost effective for them to shut? Yes it is. Is it better for the customer for them to stay open? Yes it is. Would it be convenient if you to contact your local council about a failed bin collection, when you got home from work at 19:30? Yes, it might be. Are they open? No, they have fucked off home, because it doesn't matter to them whether you have great service or not. They don't really care. No "sale" is lost, no-one gets fired, mediocre is just fine.

As a rule, I don't see the drive for improvement in the public sector. (Note, as a rule) I don't see people working until 02:00 to get an important document finished, like sales reps in my industry sometimes may have to do to get a proposal out. Instead I see a lot of fat, dumb and happy. Content with the status quo, happy to be closed on Wednesday afternoons, happy to deliver a poor service.

Clearly, privatization where there is no competition does not solve this. We see this with the trains, where the train companies have the same sloppy attitude. Trains running 10 minutes late is perfectly fine, because the customer can do fuck all about it.

So I'd like the private sector to run everything (within limits - I don't want them running the police force, for example) where we can introduce competition, to improve quality, improve service and do so more cost effectively. I don't see those objectives being achieved very often in the public sector.

Now, of course the lefties on here who have their opposed doctrines that the state should run everything from trains to manufacturing of tea bags, will disagree. I am fine with them being mistake in their beliefs.

To an off topic question, are you American or in the US? Lots of ‘Z’s’ in there.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

My employer now insists on new employees signing up to a contract that includes working into the early evenings and Saturdays (on a rota).
I didn't sign up to it and am still on the old contract. Even the slightly better pay wasn't worth it (for me, anyway).

Why would the employer ‘insist’ on it when it would have been part of the initial terms when the potential employee went for the position?

Like the ‘out of work-time call’, that would be part of any initial contract agreement and those who don’t want it, don’t take the job.

All seems a fuss over nothing.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Think you have more things to worry about, IE how shit your team has turned into under your new Manager, relegation battle for your lot this season. Moyesie back soon.

too early, we'll be alright.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Don't you just love the irony of someone who is in favour of small government moaning about the standard of services he receives from government-run things when they're not funded properly? It's like someone shitting the bed in the hotel and then phoning reception to complain about the smell.