Keir Starmer

[Churchlawtonblue]

A country with its own currency can not go bust.

A household does not have its own currency, it relies on income.

Well that is not true, Greece has, so has Mexico, Germany and I think Argentina.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Corbyn had a personality about him, what difference did that make ?

Labour are just divided, half want more left socialist other half want liberal middle left.

they're screwed, whatever leader they get won't please, he will be set in one camp or the other and it's Labour voters that will squabble about it. meanwhile , the Tories will just roll on.

they are but they have to understand the new working class.

we are aspirational. we want a better life. we want a better car. A nicer area, schools and parks, crime down and if we work hard we want to reap the rewards .

the days of whole communities in the north relying on the pit or steel works staying open are gone. Labour still haven’t grasped this collective unionised approach.

most people work in the private sector now and want a government who rewards people who work hard.

voting Labour for the new working class is not aspirational, it is aspirational though for London media luvvies who have made it in life but who wrongly think the new working class want more benefits And support.
They don’t . They want better schools, less crime and people who work hard to have opportunities for good local jobs. That’s why they now vote tory.

even mandelson understand this.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Think the Russians might dispute that...

Well this will come as shock to you but up until June 1941 they were on the Nazis side and they invaded Poland in 1939 aswel. The time when people refer to Britain standing alone which Rascal refered to is from the fall of France in June 1940 to when Germany invaded Rissia or when it declared war on the US in December 1941.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Out of purdah now so can comment. Labour's problem is that the old notion of "the working class" ended when Thatcher got elected in 1979. Those people, who would normally turn out to vote in droves for the Labour Party, suddenly found they could own their own houses, cars, go on foreign holidays, own shares, get credit easily, etc. And suddenly they were more bothered about things like exchange and interest rates. People had money in their pockets and lots of things to spend it on.

I remember Michael Foot promising "exciting politics" just before that disastrous GE under his leadership. He and Benn had interesting things to say but most voters really didn't care about "exciting politics". They wanted good, well-paid jobs, a good standard of living but something to fall back on if they had a problem. Whatever you think of Blair and Brown, they understood that.

I've said before on this forum that had Corbyn kept to a few, simple but radical ideas, that had an impact on a wide range of people, he might have won power. Just promising to make the tax system fairer and nationalise the railways might well have done it. Shame he was an antisemite and a friend of antisemites as well, which didn't help, plus he went way over the top with far too many policies, some of which people found threatening.

You can't campaign in the 21st century on policies that wouldn't be out of place in the 1960's and 1970's. The world has moved on. If you want power, you need to appeal to at least 40% of the current electorate, which is enough to get you elected. I've no idea who Starmer is appealing to at the moment.

Agree with almost all of that.

But I would add that labour are also faced with a cabal of bull shiters in power and they cant seem to cut through the lies. The dial has been shifted re what is acceptable and some elements of the public seem to have no issue. Many brexiteers fully accept that it is based on half truths and wishful thinking but they dont care - they want it and they want someone who will lie in order to get it done. A similarity with Trump is clear - many of his supporters were cheering on the policies that did literally nothing for them just because they liked the idea of a wall that would never be built. How do you compete with that base level populism?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

RW visions of little old Britain standing alone against the might of Fascism. It is a myth.

Alternatively, nasty left wing extremism that wants to downplay anything good this country has done or achieved.

Standing up to facisim is right wing apparently Jeeze what a twisted ideology.

 

[tony coleman]

Just in from Sir Starmer of The Establishment, after the

I do not think politician's are self serving, i do genuinely believe the vast majority enter politics because they truly believe they can make a difference, the expenses scandal though was the start of the lack of trust in MPs and deservedly so.

What is never said, is why they got expenses. That is never ever reported.

I have never taken a knee, i understand why people would want to do it, i have no problem with it and as a lifelong antiracist i want to see racism eradicated from society. I do not think people who do not take a knee are racist, because i would be calling myself a racist.

What is this woke band wagon and cancel culture nonsense?. It is the RW media finding a way to discredit Socialism, even though Socialism has nothing to do with cancel culture or woke nonsense, it is metro liberal idealism. I am not a metro liberal, i am a working class Socialist.

Labour is too liberal, it needs to go back to its Socialist roots, the problem is when it did that Corbyn was attacked constantly for everything from the IRA, antisemitism, having an allotment, having a beard, you name it. Because the Capitalist class were scared to death of him.

H I Rascal. You described yourself as a Socialist in an earlier post and that Labour no longer represents your views. Is there a country in the world that does represent them and where is it? Cheers. Tony.

 

[mat]

Well this will come as shock to you but up until June 1941 they were on the Nazis side and they invaded Poland in 1939 aswel.

They gave everything to stop the Nazi invasion of their country. The sacrifices of the Russian people turned the war on its head.

But that's for another thread.

This thread is about an inept leader of the opposition and his stifling of debate within his party which has led to his arse, and the parties served on a silver platter by a corrupt, lying, self serving **** and his party of cronies.


You have to Liverpool's levels of shit not to land a pinch on this government in elections.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

They gave everything to stop the Nazi invasion of their country. The sacrifices of the Russian people turned the war on its head.

But that's for another thread.

This thread is about an inept leader of the opposition and his stifling of debate within his party which has led to his arse, and the parties served on a silver platter by a corrupt, lying, self serving **** and his party of cronies.


You have to Liverpool's levels of shit not to land a pinch on this government in elections.

sometines its best to accept that you were wrong ?

 

[Magicpole]

Starmer on now saying he will do everything thst needs to be done. Resigning is your only option.

 

[peter.evans]

So you admit we never stood alone.

It is an enduring myth, a myth that is used by the right to stir nationalistic fervour. That is the point, certain parts of history are used to promote notions of English exceptionalism. Because some do not buy into these myths, we are then portrayed as hating the country. I do not hate my country, I hate what is happening to my country. I hate seeing the good people of this country taken for a ride by a collection of corrupt twats, I hate seeing people in this country treated so poorly, I hate to see people go hungry or without a home, that is what I hate. I hate how these enduring myths are used to keep people in power who do not care if children starve, or people sleep on the streets. I hate how these myths are used so they can carry on raping and pillaging the nations treasure, I want a country that is fair to everyone not just those fortunate enough to have capital or be born into capital.

This country has become a selfish country where individualism is seen as a good thing, I have always been a collectivist, I believe in humanity and the collective good overcoming the individual greed. I used to be proud of this country, now I see it being destroyed, our values diminished and and our sense of fairness lost. All lost to capital and we are now a country run for the needs of the few, not the many.

An excellent post and in terms of standing alone can I also add the 20million Russians that were killed in ww2 fighting the Nazis !?