The thing I’m (definitely) not wrong on is that 65% of Labour voters voted Remain.You are (almost) entirely wrong, but I feel we are getting in the way of the thread now. There's a brexit thread where you can cheerfully assume it is only me and not yourself relying on semantics. It's the failure by people such as yourself to understand that there was more to leave than immigration that led to it winning the day.
Its refreshing to come across someone who is not wrong. Thank you - it's a privilege, although you are willfully misinterpreting the labour vote, and your description of the three types of leave voter shows you fail to understand the issue and also why you are now left seeking comfort in a simplistic explanation for Brexit happening. The three types you describe always have and always will exist, but you fail to account for a significant proportion who don't fit in your neat little boxes. Maybe not many, but it appears it was enough to tip the vote in 2016.The thing I’m (definitely) not wrong on is that 65% of Labour voters voted Remain.
Everything else is immaterial.
There are 3 main demographics who voted Leave - 1. racists 2. thick, impressionable people who fell for Dominic Cummings manipulation and 3. Far-left zealots like Corbyn who want the country to be poorer.
Hopefully Cummings eventually goes to jail. And thank god, Corbyn will never be seen again.
The thing I’m (definitely) not wrong on is that 65% of Labour voters voted Remain.
Everything else is immaterial.
There are 3 main demographics who voted Leave - 1. racists 2. thick, impressionable people who fell for Dominic Cummings manipulation and 3. Far-left zealots like Corbyn who want the country to be poorer.
Hopefully Cummings eventually goes to jail. And thank god, Corbyn will never be seen again.
I don’t claim to be right on everything.Its refreshing to come across someone who is not wrong. Thank you - it's a privilege, although you are willfully misinterpreting the labour vote, and your description of the three types of leave voter shows you fail to understand the issue and also why you are now left seeking comfort in a simplistic explanation for Brexit happening. The three types you describe always have and always will exist, but you fail to account for a significant proportion who don't fit in your neat little boxes. Maybe not many, but it appears it was enough to tip the vote in 2016.
Ah, so you’re a 2.The reason remain lost is......
4. People who think 1,2 and 3.
Yes, but the reason labour didn't have many voters and Boris ended up with a thumping majority is because a huge swathe of the Labour vote went to leave (tory). Still you are welcome to your view - opinions being like arseholes and all that. It might be me who's wrong, but it would be a shame if we couldn't just have different views and rub along together - unless of course you believe in throwing folk in prison if you don't agree with them? If this is the case I'd like the bottom bunk please and a North facing window if possible.I don’t claim to be right on everything.
I’m just telling you that the vast majority of Labour voters voted Remain.
It’s not a matter of opinion.
There’s no “agree or disagree” on the numbers though, mate.Yes, but the reason labour didn't have many voters and Boris ended up with a thumping majority is because a huge swathe of the Labour vote went to leave (tory). Still you are welcome to your view - opinions being like arseholes and all that. It might be me who's wrong, but it would be a shame if we couldn't just have different views and rub along together - unless of course you believe in throwing folk in prison if you don't agree with them? If this is the case I'd like the bottom bunk please and a North facing window if possible.
Good post very similar to myself not affiliated to either party have voted for both preferred remain but couldn't under any circumstances support CorbynThere’s no “agree or disagree” on the numbers though, mate.
Whether you disagree that 65% of Labour voters voted for Remain is completely immaterial.
Definitely open to opinions on the reasons for the recent election result though.
Remain was polling 10 points above Leave at the time of the election. My personal view is the reason the Tories won a landslide was for a multitude of reasons and that most voters didn’t see it as binary election between Remain and Leave. I’ll throw a few at you:
1. People were tired of indecision in Parliament
2. Corbyn was offering more indecision
3. Boris Johnson’s personality and ability to “cut through”
4. The clarity of his message “Get Brexit Done”
5. And probably the most comprehensive reason is people saw a Corbyn government as a bigger risk even than Leave.
I’m a Labour voter and a Remainer and that’s why I didn’t vote for him. And 6 of my closest mates were exactly the same. He was toxic.
Yep, fair enough.There’s no “agree or disagree” on the numbers though, mate.
Whether you disagree that 65% of Labour voters voted for Remain is completely immaterial.
Definitely open to opinions on the reasons for the recent election result though.
Remain was polling 10 points above Leave at the time of the election. My personal view is the reason the Tories won a landslide was for a multitude of reasons and that most voters didn’t see it as binary election between Remain and Leave. I’ll throw a few at you:
1. People were tired of indecision in Parliament
2. Corbyn was offering more indecision
3. Boris Johnson’s personality and ability to “cut through”
4. The clarity of his message “Get Brexit Done”
5. And probably the most comprehensive reason is people saw a Corbyn government as a bigger risk even than Leave.
I’m a Labour voter and a Remainer and that’s why I didn’t vote for him. And 6 of my closest mates were exactly the same. He was toxic.
the most comprehensive reason is people saw a Corbyn government as a bigger risk even than Leave.
The vote that mattered was the referendum, the biggest vote in history, remain lost.I don’t claim to be right on everything.
I’m just telling you that the vast majority of Labour voters voted Remain.
It’s not a matter of opinion.
I didn't say racist and stupid, I said racist or stupid.The vote that mattered was the referendum, the biggest vote in history, remain lost.
The majority of Labour constituencies voted to leave, millions of remainers in London
made no difference. Because of attitudes like yours that presents failure of a chosen political
stance as the winners being racist and stupid, which you were not alone in so doing prior
to the GE, it ensured that your position would be destroyed.
Because, well, it's a stupid tack to take.
Because people saw the economic plan and were absolutely alarmed.Why was that?
You're right about one thing in that diatribe, I don't agree, because it's all based around prejudices.I didn't say racist and stupid, I said racist or stupid.
To clarify, when I say "racist" - I'm putting all the people in that box who voted on "patriotic" lines. Some of them may not be racist I suppose, maybe "nationalist" would be a more accurate word.
And when I say "stupid" - I'm talking about people who say things like "taking back control" - a slogan that was dreamed up Dominic Cummings precisely to appeal to people who didn't really understand the EU and how it worked. Ask the majority of these people which specific EU laws and processes they didn't like and they can't answer. They just repeat the soundbite.
I also put people in this box who felt "left behind" and thought leaving the EU was going to solve all of their problems. It won't, of course. But Cummings knew there was a huge swathe of disenfranchised people, so in a classic populist move, he found out what people's fears and anger were and attached that to the "Vote Leave" cause.
Also the people who voted on the "£350m a week to the NHS", of which there were many. Again, the £350m a week holds up to absolutely no scrutiny whatsoever, and the NHS had absolutely nothing to do with the EU. It was another manipulative, disgraceful, populist lie.
Immigration from the middle east and particularly Turkey, again, that was absolutely fuck all to do with the EU. But Cummings found in his research that these are what people's main fears were, so he exploited it.
There isn't a legitimate economic argument for leaving the EU. The IFS said it was like losing a Sunday Dinner and finding a packet of crisps.
It's a clichéd soundbite the leavers trot out again and again "It's that kind of attitude why you lost" it's absolute laughable nonsense. I know exactly why people voted Leave. They had fears, concerns, prejudices, many of them understandable, and the vote Leave organisations exploited those fears and concerns and tried to wrap them all up in to a neat little box and put a big "EU" sticker on it.
But the majority of those fears, concerns and prejudices have absolutely nothing to do with the EU. And the irony is, by leaving and voluntarily making the country poorer, we will have less ability as a country to deal with those fears and concerns and help the "left behind".
But I don't expect you to agree, no one likes to think they've been manipulated.
Now this I do agree with.Because people saw the economic plan and were absolutely alarmed.
Nationalising broadband, stealing US pharma's IP and manufacturing our own copycat drugs, the 4 day working week, giving private tenants the Right to Buy.
These are the kinds of policies that people thought would do even more economic damage than leaving the EU.
When you say I lost the election and I didn't understand the electorate, I think you're assuming I voted for Corbyn? I didn't.You're right about one thing in that diatribe, I don't agree, because it's all based around prejudices.
Yet again the proposition, on the £350 mill, for that is what it was, irks remainers, yet they continue
to blithely ignore the enormous financial and governmental support for remaining dwarfed anything
the leave campaign put out. Hey-ho, it's all academic now anyway, but I would respectfully suggest
that many of your assumptions above are also the reasons you lost the GE.
And it was lost without any manipulation, you simply didn't understand the electorate.
Because people saw the economic plan and were absolutely alarmed.
Nationalising broadband, stealing US pharma's IP and manufacturing our own copycat drugs, the 4 day working week, giving private tenants the Right to Buy.
These are the kinds of policies that people thought would do even more economic damage than leaving the EU.
Because of the oh so naughty wheat field trespasserFair enough.
So why did he come so close in 2017?
Because of the oh so naughty wheat field trespasser
And that was enough to nearly hand it to the socialist Satan?