Keir Starmer

ganganvince said:
RLB's days were numbered her actions as shadow education minister allowed Boris to ridicule her leader she then slipped her head into a noose not the brightest thing to do.

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Fucking Richard Burgon, complete ****.
 
Its pretty ironic that Labour went into 2 general elections with Corbyn McDonnell and Abbot whose list of evidential wrong doings were briefly

Irish sympathy
Anti Semitism
Racist language

RLB posts a newspaper article and gets binned. You really do have to sell your soul and get very dirty in politics.

She is a huge dick mind.
 
Rascal said:
It does feel like every time that Labour is discussed here, the debate is closed down and AS takes over the debate. Its counter culture at is most insidious.

It is fucking exasperating, I made a long post on what I think labour should do, it wasn't Corbynite, it wasnt Blairite, it contained no AS because I am not an anti-Semite, yet it was ignored and the debate once again returned to AS.

I don't talk about Israel or Palestine,i have little interest in it, I have no interest in anybodys faith as that is personal to them and I am a believer in freedom of religion, but I do believe nothing is beyond criticism, but you have to allow criticism and counter it, not close the debate down by moving the debate parameters.

It is a sign of how far the Overton window has moved on this country, its been subtle, but its happened over the last 30 years and its happened to such an extent that anything slightly left wing is dismissed as hard left. That's because the Overton window has been dragged that far to the right. The established narrative is we have no money, how will that be paid for. To counter the dragging of the overton window to the right the left has to employ more hard left tactics in bringing it back towards the centre, but it cant, because AS.

This leaves us all in a dangerous place, if the window of acceptability is already on the right, if it is dragged further right it enters the realms of nationalism and there is a growing rise in what is called National Conservatism. National Conservatism can not be described as far right because the overton window has moved so much and National Conservatism could well be mainstream thinking in no time. AS is a tool that can be used by National Conservatives to cover their tack their rightward. National Conservatism is Known for its cultural protectionism, and what do we have in our midst at the moment, the PM himself making the BLM movement about culture and National Conservatism sees the destruction of statues as being the start of the cultural wars they want, and who defends the statues? the foot soldiers of the National Conservative movement, the DFLA.

I am sure I will be dismissed as a conspiracy crank, that is exactly what National Conservatism wants you to think, it wants debate closed down and it is in reality a counter movement to the Lefts cultural identity movement. You can look up National Conservatism if you want, it is not only here that it is growing, it is becoming more widespread across Europe. Its basics are what you would probably expect from a party like UKIP with a bit of Britain First thrown in for good measure. It is overtly nationalistic but portrays itself as patriotic, I don't mean to be rude here but many do not see the distinction between nationalism and patriotism. Orwell sums it up brilliantly btw.

My point here and its been illustrated over the last few pages is that these new identarian movements are real, its dangerous and it will use any tool at its disposal to achieve its aims. If Labour can be so easily dismissed because of AS as this thread proves then the narrative of National Conservatism becomes increasingly more prevelant.

I am sure now there will be replies of how the left close down debate, like no platforming people, the education departments of the country being full of hard left Trotskyites etc, the banning of Hopkins from twitter, etc etc all being leftist examples of closing down debate. This comes from those associated with National Conservatism and promulgated through, believe it or not the idiotic anti-semitic notion of Cultural Marxism, a term I am sure you all know of now and a term that is now used widely without people understanding its origins. Its origins were in cultural bolshekivism which arose from the Frankfurt and Chicago schools of economic and political thinking. It is from these schools of thinking that arose the right wing ideology of small state free market Hayekism, which was used to counter the social consensus that arose after WW2 when the UK started the NHS, the welfare state etc etc .. These things are anathema to capitalists, they had to fight back and now you cant move in the media for right wing think tanks like the TPA, migration watch, the IEA, etc etc ran by clowns including the odious Toby Young et al.
Now, I have stated there should never be any room in the Labour party for AS, there should be no room in society for any discrimination based on faith or race, but it is being fermented and it is on the rise across all faiths and religions, it has to stop and it has to be fought and I think using AS to close down debate is dangerous.

Make of this what you will, its my honest thoughts on the matter
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What a load of tosh. Boris's Conservative administration is just about as far left as Conservatism gets. Leave yes but Right wing? No.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
You told a blatant lie about the Israelis training the US police force in the techniques used to kill George Floyd. A lie even the original source, Maxine Peake, the Independent (which is a nasty antisemitic rag) and Amnesty US had retracted. It's a lie that demonises the world's only Jewish state.

Yet you chose to propagate it and you then have the nerve to complain that people bring the AS issue up.
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Not the point I was making, but fair enough if I what I said turned out to be lies, on the evidence of what I had read it certainly did not appear to be lies.

And still it goes on though.
 
BlueAnorak said:
What a load of tosh. Boris's Conservative administration is just about as far left as Conservatism gets. Leave yes but Right wing? No.
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You highlighted my point perfectly, thank you. That is how far right the Overton window has moved that Johnsons government are now considered to be moderate, but one nation Conservative they are not, whilst Labour were considered far left when they were nowhere near the politics of Foot and Benn.

That is exactly what I was talking about in moving the Overton window, its been so successful you dismiss it as tosh.
 
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Rascal said:
Not the point I was making, but fair enough if I what I said turned out to be lies, on the evidence of what I had read it certainly did not appear to be lies.

And still it goes on though.
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That's the problem with conspiracy theories. They have a potential grain of truth to them. This one started as a far-right conspiracy theory in the 1970's actually, proving that, when it comes to hating Jews, there's really little difference between the far-right and far-left. You're just as bad as each other.

Fortunately, knowing you, I genuinely believe you aren't antisemitic. But this episode and Corbyn's tenure as leader just goes to prove how easy it is to convince people that Jews are their enemy. There are people on BLM protests, who I believe genuinely want an end to discrimination against people of colour, yet who happily believe Israel - and by extension Jews - are the root of all the evil in the world. You even get people like Jackie Walker claiming Jews were behind the slave trade.
 
Rascal said:
You highlighted my point perfectly, thank you. That is how far right the Overton window has moved that Johnsons government are now considered to be moderate, but one nation Conservative they are not, whilst Labour were considered far left when they were nowhere near the politics of Foot and Benn.

That is exactly what I was talking about in moving the Overton window, its been so successful you dismiss it as tosh.
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Did you miss the budget in January?

It was nearly Labour’s 2017 manifesto and then what right wing social policies have they returned to, that were lost under New Labour?
 
Watching Ed Milliband on Marr, if this more seasoned an MP with the passion he is showing had been the Ed Milliband as leader I would take him over Starmer.

But milliband was given an awful time then by the press and ridiculed, had anti-semetic attacks about him and his family and sneered at for not being that **** of a beother of his.

I expect many to disagree with this but don't really care.
 
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Rascal said:
You highlighted my point perfectly, thank you. That is how far right the Overton window has moved that Johnsons government are now considered to be moderate, but one nation Conservative they are not, whilst Labour were considered far left when they were nowhere near the politics of Foot and Benn.

That is exactly what I was talking about in moving the Overton window, its been so successful you dismiss it as tosh.
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As someone who has voted Labour quite often during my life, I have to say that you really are qùite deluded.
I have stayed where I was. Momentum and Corbyn marched the Labour party well off to the left and pretty much made them unelectable.
 
urban genie said:
Watching Ed Milliband on Marr, if this more seasoned an MP with the passion he is showing had been the Ed Milliband as leader I would take him over Starmer.

But milliband was given an awful time then by the press and ridiculed, had anti-semetic attacks about him and his family and sneered at for not being that **** of a beother of his.

I expect many to disagree with this but don't really care.
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If they'd done the right thing and elected his brother, we'd be 5 years into a Labour government. Not the country's fault the membership are numpties.
 
urban genie said:
Watching Ed Milliband on Marr, if this more seasoned an MP with the passion he is showing had been the Ed Milliband as leader I would take him over Starmer.

But milliband was given an awful time then by the press and ridiculed, had anti-semetic attacks about him and his family and sneered at for not being that **** of a beother of his.

I expect many to disagree with this but don't really care.
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