Keir Starmer

Gaudion M said:
It is milking the political capital out of brexit - ending FOM is what it is all about as its red meat to the tory base and they can jeer at Labour and call them out for being soft on immigration.
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FOM isn't ended. It still exists in the EU. What has happened is we have cut ourselves off from FOM and imposed travel restrictions upon ourselves. Had we stayed we breeze through customs as normal - now we join the non-EU queue. Belgians can still drive straight into France and Germans can still go to Crete on holidays.
 
Gaudion M said:
The polls are consistent that brexit is not universally popular - you read this thread and you would think its 90% who voted for brexit, it rarely gets above 55% and is more often below 50% support. No deal is consistently sub 30%.

In any event the popularity of brexit as of right now is neither hear nor there. In 12 months time we will be living the reality and i can guarantee you that its popularity will fall through the floor. So if it starts at circa 50% popularity and is about to fall of a cliff it's not a great strategy to back it right now. Your are all in a dream world where you think brexit is going to result in sun lit uplands, its going to be a disaster. A clear cut and unequivocal failure, it will be as popular as dog shit at the next election.
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You may be right you may be wrong. But what you can't say is that you are 100% certain. What is certain is that remaining in the EU has been rejected twice. And people like your good self and others need to understand and accept that and that the country now needs to pull together to try and make leaving the EU as much a success as possible. When we had a remain parliament this significantly hindered the UK getting a decent deal with the EU. We are now clearly in a much stronger negotiating position which should benefit us in getting what we want. The country has made momentous decisions in the past and we have survived and prospered. We are currently going through extremely difficult times economically and socially but we will survive and prosper again in the future. Having been lucky enough to travel to many places in the world, I truly believe we are very lucky to live in the UK. Our freedoms and standard of living are very high unlike so many places. I believe they will continue to be so. Sure they could be better in areas and we must strive to make them better wherever we can. And if in 4 years time we are not happy, we have the chance to rid ourselves of those in charge. They are accountable and we shall hold them to account. Anyway have a good day.
 
Tb1981 said:
Get ready because any redundancies....brexits fault
Pandemic related recession...brexit
Pot holes in road....brexit
Cat next door dies ... brexit

The next wave of negativity will follow, then another, then A bit more

These remainers will never stop, we have not done what we should have and we must be punished
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Its probably accurate and I support leave.
 
joe123 said:
True, but then he's between a rock and a hard place on this in the sense that he'd have got equally damning headlines had he gone the other way and pissed off his metropolitan base with "Starmer votes to end free movement". My guess is playing to that base here, and hoping Patel and co fuck it up.
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Fair enough, you could be right, and his Met base is all around him.
The rock and a hard place is also a good analogy, and taking this stance doesn't
alter that fact. If it were me, I'd have supported it (even if against it it), because
the base to which you refer may hate him for it, but will never, ever vote Conservative,
whereas, the Northern vote is available for him to get back into the fold.
This is why I think he's been a poor choice, he's screwing Labour's chances doing this.
 
bluethrunthru said:
FOM isn't ended. It still exists in the EU. What has happened is we have cut ourselves off from FOM and imposed travel restrictions upon ourselves. Had we stayed we breeze through customs as normal - now we join the non-EU queue. Belgians can still drive straight into France and Germans can still go to Crete on holidays.
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My nephew is going over to France, (as soon as travel restrictions are lifted), he wants
to travel around, and work here and there for 6 months or so.
After poring over maps, bus and train timetables, contacting potential employers,
he speaks French, and his girlfriend is French, (and very beautiful)
and planning his routes etc; I've never heard him saying he's banned from entering.
I'll have to tell him.
 
Vic said:
For the record (yet again) - the majority of votes at two GEs and for MEPs were for parties either for Remaining or at least giving the choice back to the people in another referendum. You cannot change that inconvenient truth.
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Interesting that none of them says this isn't true.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
My nephew is going over to France, (as soon as travel restrictions are lifted), he wants
to travel around, and work here and there for 6 months or so.
After poring over maps, bus and train timetables, contacting potential employers,
he speaks French, and his girlfriend is French, (and very beautiful)
and planning his routes etc; I've never heard him saying he's banned from entering.
I'll have to tell him.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tish-citizens-europe-brexit-a9593066.html?amp
 
Ancient Citizen said:
My nephew is going over to France, (as soon as travel restrictions are lifted), he wants
to travel around, and work here and there for 6 months or so.
After poring over maps, bus and train timetables, contacting potential employers,
he speaks French, and his girlfriend is French, (and very beautiful)
and planning his routes etc; I've never heard him saying he's banned from entering.
I'll have to tell him.
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I suggest you read what I wrote. You are answering an unasked question
 
Rascal said:
This is one of the problems created. If Israel annexe the West Bank as is being reported as possible, then is calling for sanctions anti-Semitic or anti-imperialist. I would say its anti=imperialist and the left has traditionally been anti-imperialist, but if it is seen as anti-Semitic then Israel can act with impunity and Starmer who is backed into a corner has to sack Nandy for supporting a long held Labour value. That further increases division in the party as it is questioning the parties commitment to being anti-imperialist.

Its a fucking mess and Starmer has made a rod for his own back by sacking RLB.
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Here's an interesting take on it. I think it's suggesting that annexation of the West Bank would increase AS.

Annexation would represent a violation of international law. It would also be a gift to those who want to perpetuate the old stories about Israel.
 
Vic said:
Interesting that none of them says this isn't true.
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But what you singularly fail to factor in is the millions of people like myself who voted labour knowing that if there was a 2nd ref I would be voting leave.

Not all labour voters are metropolitan suburban affluent remain voters. Millions are working class leave voters.
I know this is difficult to understand but it's true.
 
Kazzydeyna said:
But what you singularly fail to factor in is the millions of people like myself who voted labour knowing that if there was a 2nd ref I would be voting leave.

Not all labour voters are metropolitan suburban affluent remain voters. Millions are working class leave voters.
I know this is difficult to understand but it's true.
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It's not difficult at all. We lost lots of them to the Tories. But as most Labour voters of all classes wanted to Remain (want to) then it's not difficult to see why allowing another democratic vote was a proper option, which you took.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
So far, he's had a few replies, a couple for farm work and one in a factory
in Nantes. If all those restrictions are in enforced by the French, then the 300,000
living just in London, will face the same arbitrary rules, which benefits absolutely
nobody.
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He's not going for a permanent job.
 
The answer you gave was -

" he's banned from entering "

I never suggested he was. I simply stated that there are now travel and working restriction that do apply and that don't apply to the citizens of 27 other countries. And if he is going for a wander they will apply at every single border in the EU he comes to. Every time he wants to cross into another country. That this is the case is our choice its not being imposed on us by the EU.
 
bluethrunthru said:
The answer you gave was -

" he's banned from entering "

I never suggested he was. I simply stated that there are now travel and working restriction that do apply and that don't apply to the citizens of 27 other countries. And if he is going for a wander they will apply at every single border in the EU he comes to. Every time he wants to cross into another country. That this is the case is our choice its not being imposed on us by the EU.
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I've been for a wander in Spain many times, each time I go, I've been stopped
at the airport by the police in booths, and asked to show my passport. This has
happened every time I've gone for Donkey's years, sometimes I get questioned, sometimes
I don't. When I've driven from Spain to France, the same happens.
When I drove to Germany 20 years ago, I was stopped at the border and had the
same experiences.
So I don't think Neil, the nephew, will be all that bothered.
 
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