Ancoats blue
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- 23 Jul 2020
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They are not my mates and you have proved nothing apart from you feel we are all to blame for something we had no part in. I am not responsible for Kaufman saying Israel is behaving like a fascist state nor am I responsible for others in the party machine who used antisemitism as a weapon to attack figures they didn't like. The real culprits are the ones who did use antisemitism as a tool to attack people, they should be who you take to task not some lad off the internet who you know personally in your heart is not antisemitic. I am as angry at them for their disgusting behaviour as I am as angry as any perpetrator of racism. Its not a contest, I abhor racism and discrimination in any form and you know if I was in your company I would not stand for anyone being racist towards you and I think everybody on here would do the same.You have proved my point. You are resolutely anti-racist. Unless it's your mates being racist. Then their racism becomes a "weapon". Thanks.
Think he wants to keep schools open.
Nearly when red in the face to get that point across.
You have proved my point. You are resolutely anti-racist. Unless it's your mates being racist. Then their racism becomes a "weapon". Thanks.
I'm afraid not. You seem to think that it is necessary to denounce people to have right on your side. There probably were/are countries in the world where lists are kept of those to be denounced (including the deceased) and you have to profess virtue by expressing hatred for them, but this country is not one of them.You have proved my point. You are resolutely anti-racist. Unless it's your mates being racist. Then their racism becomes a "weapon". Thanks.
They are not my mates and you have proved nothing apart from you feel we are all to blame for something we had no part in. I am not responsible for Kaufman saying Israel is behaving like a fascist state nor am I responsible for others in the party machine who used antisemitism as a weapon to attack figures they didn't like. The real culprits are the ones who did use antisemitism as a tool to attack people, they should be who you take to task not some lad off the internet who you know personally in your heart is not antisemitic. I am as angry at them for their disgusting behaviour as I am as angry as any perpetrator of racism. Its not a contest, I abhor racism and discrimination in any form and you know if I was in your company I would not stand for anyone being racist towards you and I think everybody on here would do the same.
That being said I will also not stand for the CAA bullying people either with spurious claims, they are as bad as the racists in my opinion because they are also using race as a weapon for nefarious purposes.
Where we differ here is you see perpetrators of racism and I see perpetrators of racism as two separate groups, we both agree there was a disgusting amount of racism aimed at a vulnerable and often persecuted section of society and we both want it to end and never be seen or heard again. We disagree on who is responsible, you believe everyone is responsible and I see a certain section of people as responsible. We are not denying it existed because it did exist and we disagree on scale. I am not Jewish so I cannot imagine the hurt you feel, but I was a member of a party that exacerbated that hurt. The facts in the report show it was overstated but that doesn't mean it didn't exist, it did exist and logically as it did exist it was overstated as the report shows, therefore there had to a body of people responsible for overstating it and using antisemitism for a purpose. There people are not your mates, nor are they my mates, they are the enemy of all good and decent people in the UK, because if it wasn't the Jewish community who had been used it would have been another community as these people did not care who they used as long as they got what they wanted. I really do think Col that by trying to undermine us with your statements you are doing anti racism no favours because it us who will back you and support you against serious threats in the future. The CAA are also doing this, they are accusing life long anti racists and demanding action against them to such an extent I fear they will erode an already fragile trust in our politicians to even lower levels and that then does open the door for extremists and the type of politician who really do hold vile views and really do want to cause harm against your community.
The real truth lies somewhere in between our two poles of opinion, what cant be disputed is that there was antisemitism, what can be disputed is the scale and who perpetrated it. Either way I hope you realise that I am not an apologist, I am as anti racist as I have always been and always will be.
We all hate Jews.
Think we have reached the point where those who think that the anti-semitism was overstated and ‘weaponised’ to attack Corbyn, are now seeking to ‘weaponise’ the alternate view to attack Starmer.
I’ll go back to what I said well over a year ago that it was a failure of political leadership by Corbyn to allow this issue to fester and grow, and the fact that he allowed it to fester and grow was an indictment on his attitude and views on anti-semitism.
Corbyn‘s statement on the report was also a failure of character. It smacked of ‘woe is me’. Personally, I find that sort of ‘poor me’ whining stomach turning, much as I find most of what Trump says stomach turning with his incessant and whining narcissism.
The Corbyn statement left Starmer little option but to kick him out which is why Corbyn gave that statement so he could have his self-indulgent moment of ‘heroic martyrdom’ and proven himself to be a rather pathetic little man.
I leave that well alone.Just the ones that voted for brexit then? ;-)
I leave that well alone.
You and mcfc1632 can happily mull over the nationality of fish and car park Kent all day long.
As Churchill said of the 1st World War....
"Victory was to be bought so dear as to be almost indistinguishable from defeat."
Your absence has been noted and the thread is much poorer for it.
Im still a right wing racist xenophobic fascist nazi though as is anyone else that voted leave in case you had missed the threads and wanted an update.
Im thinking of setting up a support group and might invite Jezza so we can discuss being called nasty things we are not and all because of politics.
I will not use it to attack Starmer, I will attack him because of his politics. What you are doing is using the issue to attack those who you accuse of using the issue to defend Starmer, that makes you just as complicit.Think we have reached the point where those who think that the anti-semitism was overstated and ‘weaponised’ to attack Corbyn, are now seeking to ‘weaponise’ the alternate view to attack Starmer.
I’ll go back to what I said well over a year ago that it was a failure of political leadership by Corbyn to allow this issue to fester and grow, and the fact that he allowed it to fester and grow was an indictment on his attitude and views on anti-semitism.
Corbyn‘s statement on the report was also a failure of character. It smacked of ‘woe is me’. Personally, I find that sort of ‘poor me’ whining stomach turning, much as I find most of what Trump says stomach turning with his incessant and whining narcissism.
The Corbyn statement left Starmer little option but to kick him out which is why Corbyn gave that statement so he could have his self-indulgent moment of ‘heroic martyrdom’ and proven himself to be a rather pathetic little man.
You're right, in one respect.
That's the line being spun by the right wing.
How about this....
Corbyn was telling the truth.
When Starmer made his very public mea culpa on behalf of the entire Labour Party, he was going out on a limb, the party did not agree with him, but they would let it go, put in place whatever was necessary and move on.
Starmer's suspension of Corbyn went too far, because regardless of what you think, the vast majority in the party agree with Corbyn, accept the recommendations but put the problem in perspective. Starmer wouldn't even allow that caveat, consequently the party is in uproar.
Starmer is f**ked and so is the party.
Corbyn’s statement was framed as rejecting the ECHR findings. Corbyn’s statement was designed to make life difficult for Starmer, and to again insist it was all a media plot and political opponents out to get him.
Two headlines below, show the framing. When I read the statement I could see Corbyn doesn’t really accept the findings. That is how it comes across to me and that’s how it will come across to others. The statement was self serving and designed to cause trouble. All this doubling down just reinforces the idea that Labour has an issue with anti-semitism. I get that Labour members will be defensive, but the truth is Labour members elected a leader who by his attitudes and actions allowed this perception to take hold and grow. At some point Labour members are going to have to own it.
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Jeremy Corbyn rejects overall findings of EHRC report on antisemitism in Labour
Problem was ‘dramatically overstated for political reasons’ by opponents, says former Labour leaderwww.theguardian.com
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Corbyn rejects damning ruling that he failed to to act to stop antisemitism
Defiant ex-leader insists ‘My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process’ - and blames media for exaggerating scale of scandalwww.independent.co.uk
I will not use it to attack Starmer, I will attack him because of his politics. What you are doing is using the issue to attack those who you accuse of using the issue to defend Starmer, that makes you just as complicit.
Antisemitism has no place and should not be used as a political tool, I don't know how many times I have to say this.