Keir Starmer

Not quite sure why around 50 Labour MPs are campaigning to stop the deportation of serious criminals now that the ones who came to this country as a child have been removed from the list. Even worse, they're trying to conflate it with Windrush - the deportation of law-abiding British citizens! That same bloc of Labour MPs, that seem to go against the grain of the vast majority of the country on every single issue, need to be turfed out by Starmer if he wants to end Labour's 14 years in oblivion.
Have you been accepting the Daily Mail as Verbatim?

Back on Topic.

Labour are supposed to be the bastion of anti racism and human rights. Not one of his shadow cabinet signed a parliamentary pit by labour backbenchers to call Patel to parliament to explain her evidence for repatriation of hundreds of people being sent back, some who were pleading with constituency MPs not to go back because they'd be murdered on arrival, which has occured in some cases.

The majority being sent back aren't serious criminals they are people that have settled, become British and actively participate in our economy. Now they've been sent back their families, some who've never been there are being sent back too because Patel has deported the person that gave them the right to stay here.


It's a reverse windrush scandal that will come out over time. Sadly a lot of the people deported will never have it.
 
Have you been accepting the Daily Mail as Verbatim?

Back on Topic.

Labour are supposed to be the bastion of anti racism and human rights. Not one of his shadow cabinet signed a parliamentary pit by labour backbenchers to call Patel to parliament to explain her evidence for repatriation of hundreds of people being sent back, some who were pleading with constituency MPs not to go back because they'd be murdered on arrival, which has occured in some cases.

The majority being sent back aren't serious criminals they are people that have settled, become British and actively participate in our economy. Now they've been sent back their families, some who've never been there are being sent back too because Patel has deported the person that gave them the right to stay here.


It's a reverse windrush scandal that will come out over time. Sadly a lot of the people deported will never have it.

It doesn't matter where it's been reported: it's the law.

Anyone serving over 1 year in prison has to be deported by the Home Secretary (with some exceptions) and if you've served over a year in prison in this country then it obviously is a serious crime.

The law incidentally was passed by the last Labour Government who understood that being weak on law and order and siding with serious criminals wasn't going to win you elections. A lot of these deportations have been cancelled due to last minute appeals now so that's another shot in the arm for the 2024 Conservative campaign.
 
Only because we have allowed it to become hollow.
Working class solidarity was a product of the industrial revolution and even then it was mostly industry specific, like mining, the dock workers and so on, work that bound men together (and it was men), work that was often geographically specific, which in turn led to stable working class communities.

That time has gone. The conditions that led to working class solidarity have evaporated.

Today working class solidarity is as authentic as the Durham Miners Gala, you know, the one without any miners.
Only because we have allowed it to become hollow.

Only had a quick glance at this as its not something i am familiar with but this struck me and is a quote from the study.

"Interviews with the workers showed little sign of a move to middle class - instead, affluent workers seemed to hold on to their working class identity and attitudes. The researchers concluded that growing affluence does not entail the end of class, or of class politics; on the contrary, class remains an important part even of a prosperous, affluent society."
Indeed, the study found little movement from working class to middle class. Affluent workers bought stuff not as status symbols but because they wanted stuff. Affluent workers still considered themselves working class, but they were atomised, their work did not bind them together, their working classness did not, and still does not, automatically lead to any sense of solidarity with fellow members of the working class.
Why do you think equality of opportunity is disingenuous?
Two reasons, one it is disingenuous if it is a lie, this country has a terrible record on social mobility and it's not all down to the Tories.

And two and most importantly, is that it cements the idea that the only route to self worth is advancement and advancement is synonymous with getting out of the working class, this perpetuates the idea that there is no dignity, no worth, to working class jobs. This view justifies low pay, low status and poor conditions by reinforcing the idea that those who do this work are life's failures, who lack the wherewithal to advance above their lowly status.
I despise the wording free stuff. It is not only the working class who receive "free stuff" and that is why i support the concept of universalism. The who is going to pay is an argument of the right. They always find money to drop bombs but struggle to find money to feed kids. It is about priorities and if the middle class would rather we drop bombs than feed kids then tax them enough to pay for the bombs. :))

Seriously though society has to have all parts contribute and do so in a manner that makes everyone feel valued. If corporations pay there fair share then value them, if they don't penalise them. The middle class and the Upper class are recipients of free stuff dependent on how you see free stuff.
You might well despise the words free stuff, but the middle classes don't, or should I say didn't, now that some are getting a taste of just how measly our welfare system is, now that increasing numbers are dependent on it in our Covid 19 world, but before Covid? They didn't give a fuck.

You want an example of just how much couldn't give a fuckness there is? Two days ago a small number of newspapers reported, on pages three of four, that almost 700,000 of our fellow citizens have been driven in to poverty by the Covid crisis.

Where was the outrage? Where was the cry that something must be done?

Working class solidarity? A nostalgic dream.

Middle class empathy for the working class? You're having a laugh!
Multiculturalism is what we have and we have to make the best of it. I do believe that we have more common in class terms than we have differences in ethnic background.
Multicultualism is not what we have and saying we have to make the best of it (hardly a ringing endorsement) does not make it so. Do you know what multiculturalism sounds like when it is uttered as a fait accompli as you have just done, it sounds like a denial of the reality of most people's lives.

There is a mainstream culture in this country, it can be difficult to define, but it is real nonetheless, one knows whether one is part of it or not. This mainstream culture changes over time of course and the influence of other cultures plays a part, but the existence of other cultures in British society, simply by their existence, has never previously be seen to delegitimise that mainstream culture, to reduce it to one of many, that is until now.

Multiculturalism is a lie, a lie propagated, for our sins, by the left, yet another example of our increasing estrangement from the working class, a lie happily exploited by the likes of Johnson, Farage and Robinson.
I am a dreamer, there is nothing wrong with that. I do believe people work better when they work together, you could say i was a proponent of Collectivist Socialism as i do believe in a strong state and that there are more people damaged by the free market than enjoy the fruits of the free market..
I agree with much of this, but you're right, it is the stuff of dreams, but dreams by their very nature are not reality and because they're not reality they can end up being an indulgent fantasy, a sugar coated, but ultimately cruel, dead end.
 
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Working class solidarity was a product of the industrial revolution and even then it was mostly industry specific, like mining, the dock workers and so on, work that bound men together (and it was men), work that was often geographically specific, which in turn led to stable working class communities.
I understand what you are saying here, but still think working class solidarity can be renewed if and only if we have a government that concentrates on working class priorities and communities. Too long have these communities gone unvalued and left behind.
That time has gone. The conditions that led to working class solidarity have evaporated.

Today working class solidarity is as authentic as the Durham Miners Gala, you know, the one without any miners.

Indeed, the study found little movement from working class to middle class. Affluent workers bought stuff not as status symbols but because they wanted stuff. Affluent workers still considered themselves working class, but they were atomised, their work did not bind them together, their working classness did not, and still does not, automatically lead to any sense of solidarity with fellow members of the working class.
It may of course take a shock, it is not something that will grow organically but might if it is against and in protest to.
Two reasons, one it is disingenuous if it is a lie, this country has a terrible record on social mobility and it's not all down to the Tories.

And two and most importantly, is that it cements the idea that the only route to self worth is advancement and advancement is synonymous with getting out of the working class, this perpetuates the idea that there is no dignity, no worth, to working class jobs. This view justifies low pay, low status and poor conditions by reinforcing the idea that those who do this work are life's failures, who lack the wherewithal to advance above their lowly status.
The opposite though and inequality just reinforces the status quo, an uneducated working class with no opportunity is destined forever to be an underclass and subservient to the ruling class and again reinforces low wages, low status and poor conditions. There is dignity in work according to ability and everyone should have the chance to fulfil their potential. The amount of unfulfilled potential is harmful to the nation, we are in effect wasting lives because of the lack of opportunity to better themselves and be more complete human beings. Surely the goal should be a classless society that serves the needs of all not just a select few based on wealth and/or privilige.
You might well despise the words free stuff, but the middle classes don't, or should I say didn't, now that some are getting a taste of just how measly our welfare system is, now that increasing numbers are dependent on it in our Covid 19 world, but before Covid? They didn't give a fuck.
I meant free stuff aimed at those who were less fortunate, a divisive trope at reinforcing class distinction, One of the benefits if that is the correct word, is that the rest of the country have seen the benefit of having a welfare state and will hopefully now support it rather than dismiss it is free stuff.
You want an example of just how much couldn't give a fuckness there is? Two days ago a small number newspapers reported, on pages three of four, that almost 700,000 of our fellow citizens have been driven in to poverty by the Covid crisis.

Where is the outrage? Where is the cry that something must be done?

The lack of an effective Labour party cheerleading for those left behind is sorely missed. Sadly when one of the shadow front benchers is the awful Reeves i doubt there will be much compassion emanating from the shadow front bench,
Working class solidarity? A nostalgic dream.
It is needed more than ever, but it needs leadership and Starmer is not that man.
Middle class empathy for the working class? You're having a laugh!

Agreed
Multicultualism is not what we have and to keep repeating it is does not make it so. Do you know what multiculturalism sounds like when it is uttered as a fait accompli as you have just done, it sounds like a denial of the reality of most people's lives.

Manchester is a multicultural city, there are around 300 languages spoken in Manchester, obviously i am speaking for Manchester because I cant imagine it would be the same in a small Cotswold village.
Is it any wonder that so many people reject it, for the most part passively, quietly, but reject it nonetheless.
I understand many people reject it, but rejecting reality is like rejecting the moon exists. Rejection and support is also two different things, you can acknowledge it exists but it doesn't mean you have to support its existence.
The mainstream culture of this country changes over time and the influence of other cultures plays a part, but the existence of other cultures in British society, simply by their existence, has never previously be seen to delegitimise mainstream culture, to reduce it to one of many, that is until now.
Agreed and it is an issue. How the issue is solved though I am not certain, but reiterate that a man who works in a warehouse is the same man regardless of cultural/ethnic background.
Multiculturalism is a lie, a lie propagated by the left, a lie happily exploited by the likes of Johnson, Farage and
If it was lie they couldnt exploit it, they would have nothing to exploit, They create division between the two men who work in the warehouse based on ethnic/cultural background.

They are wholly wrong to do this and whatever way you look at it, it is division of the working class in the same way the Tories seek to divide the working class between workers and shirkers.
I agree with much of this, but you're right, it is the stuff of dreams, but dreams by their very nature are not reality and because they're not reality they can end up being an indulgent fantasy, a sugar coated, but ultimately cruel, dead end.
Without a dream we just acquiesce to the status quo and and it does a disservice to all those who went before who had dreams of a better country for all. A world without hope is the real dead end.
 
Manchester is a multicultural city, there are around 300 languages spoken in Manchester, obviously i am speaking for Manchester because I cant imagine it would be the same in a small Cotswold village.
You should hear what the locals think about the second home incomers taking all their houses.
 
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She's been suspended....


What a complicated web Kier weaves - truly didn't realise what a Pandoras box he opened to gain personal power. He now needs to pay back those that put him there and is just a puppet with no discernible policy or purpose beyond 'cleansing' the left. I actually think he's probably got less chance of contesting the next GE than Boris now!
 
wondering what shadow cabinet people would put together from the current Labour MPs, given there's no consensus on the past few leaders.
I would struggle to name one.

Reeves could be Shadow Minister for Welfare cuts.

Totally uninspiring bunch of nobodies.
 
Some good articles explaining just how difficult it's going to be for Labour to win power in 2024 or 2029 for that matter, recently exemplified by the position 70 or so MPs took on the deportation of foreign criminals:



Unless Scotland stops voting SNP, there's no route to power for Labour unless they win back the red wall. There's simply not enough seats in the middle-class or student-parts of big cities for them to win an election.
 
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Holy shit. Keith Stalin has got his client client journalists promoting him as sexy on social media.
 

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