Kevin De Bruyne 2016/17

[BillyShears]

The funny thing is, you do actually agree that De Bruyne is primarily a counter attacking player, you just don't understand why. A player who gives the ball away cheaply, looks to move the ball quickly and create with direct tempo and quick passing, You even referenced tempo as a reason he was brought in. That all screams 'counter attacking'. Every attribute you say he has, and I don't disagree suggest his attributes suit counter attacking high tempo, high risk play. This was not Mancini's way, certainly not Pellegrini's way and definately is not the Pep way.

Every player in our squad are comfortably with Silva, we looked unstoppable with Silva at the start of the season. De Bruyne is unquestionably inconsistent would it not make sense to play to our strengths?

As for Nasri, this site is full of idiots whom can't see the wood for the trees, Nasri has been integral and trusted by both Mancini and Pellegrini, my bet Pep will trust him too.

I'm not saying that KDB is ONLY a counter attacking player, it's that his qualities are such that he is devastating on the counter. He is just as adept at sliding five yard passes in between two defenders as Silva is, in fact he can do almost everything Silva can do in passing sense with the football. On the flipside Silva can't do everything De Bruyne can do either in a passing sense, or in a scoring sense.

I'm not arguing that we weren't amazing in the first 5 games of this season, in fact quite the opposite i've said several times that in a way the signing of KDB unbalanced the side because we went from out and out pace on the flanks and Silva off a forward with everyone playing in clear positions, to trying to shoehorn Silva and KDB into the same side.

The point is that since Silva's return from injury it's again become clear that him and KDB in the same side simply isn't working. So something needs to change. For me that would mean that the player who is playing better stays in the side and the one who isn't is dropped out of it. Yes they have different characteristics as players, but ultimately you can still only play 1 of them IMO, I'm just not even marginally convinced that Silva is the obvious choice at number 10 on current form.

 

[Yarisken]

We should sell him, no give him, to united. When we play against them he has to score an owngoal :-)

 

[schfc6]

Silva has given the ball away as much as KDB in the last month. Their pass completion stats are incredibly similar across the whole season. If you were to take their best and worst performances you'd see almost identical passing stats.

For someone who often comes across as unbelievably condescending you don't half talk some shite. De Bruyne is around 77% when it comes to possession. That is below that of Demichellis, Otamendi, Sagna and Kolarov. His 77% is way down on the likes of Silva, Ya Ya and Fernandinho who are all in the mid to high 80's, Silva the lowest with 9.4% better than De Bruyne. Sergio higher. Even the much critisised Navas has a higher ball retention percentage than De Bruyne.

If you can't see why giving the ball away nearly every 4 passes is not suited to a central play maker then sorry, you don't know what you're on about.

 

[schfc6]

I'm not saying that KDB is ONLY a counter attacking player, it's that his qualities are such that he is devastating on the counter. He is just as adept at sliding five yard passes in between two defenders as Silva is, in fact he can do almost everything Silva can do in passing sense with the football. On the flipside Silva can't do everything De Bruyne can do either in a passing sense, or in a scoring sense.

I'm not arguing that we weren't amazing in the first 5 games of this season, in fact quite the opposite i've said several times that in a way the signing of KDB unbalanced the side because we went from out and out pace on the flanks and Silva off a forward with everyone playing in clear positions, to trying to shoehorn Silva and KDB into the same side.

The point is that since Silva's return from injury it's again become clear that him and KDB in the same side simply isn't working. So something needs to change. For me that would mean that the player who is playing better stays in the side and the one who isn't is dropped out of it. Yes they have different characteristics as players, but ultimately you can still only play 1 of them IMO, I'm just not even marginally convinced that Silva is the obvious choice at number 10 on current form.

I'm a De Bruyne fan, I just don't think he is careful enough with possession to be considered in the central role. Not yet, not with our players.

For me, I'd like to see a solid two. Say Fernandinho and Delph/Fernando with Silva and De Bruyne, and Sterling Iheanacho/Sergio up front. Certainly at home against dross like United and Villa.

For me away, and we seem to agree, a solid two, with for me Silva and the two quicks out wide.

This is football, we all have opinions, and we all want the best for zCity.

 

[BillyShears]

For someone who often comes across as unbelievably condescending you don't half talk some shite. De Bruyne is around 77% when it comes to possession. That is below that of Demichellis, Otamendi, Sagna and Kolarov. His 77% is way down on the likes of Silva, Ya Ya and Fernandinho who are all in the mid to high 80's, Silva the lowest with 9.4% better than De Bruyne. Sergio higher. Even the much critisised Navas has a higher ball retention percentage than De Bruyne.

If you can't see why giving the ball away nearly every 4 passes is not suited to a central play maker then sorry, you don't know what you're on about.

I'll ignore the insults as I didn't think I had said anything remotely condescending or abusive. As it happens I was just looking at their overall passing stats for the season and you are right. Silva is better having played 500'ish minutes less. I suspect though that what weights it quite so heavily in Silva's favour is the first five games of the season when we were imperious full stop. I think come the end of the season those stats will be closer together.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I didn't mention Silva playing from a wide position, someone else did.

Also, I look at game to give my judgement, not the stats. What the goals and assists do show is that he is more creative at home than away at the moment. Therefore your argument about packed defences negating his game doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Your argument is that he is not a playmaker. Well I beg to differ, so we will have to agree to disagree.

Bit of a strange post this mate. You say you don't rely on stats, but then in the next sentence use assist and goal stats to back up your point?

Also, you are using the assist and goal stats as evidence that my post doesn't hold up to scrutiny?

Taking a casual look at how many assists he's got at home is hardly scrutiny is it? It's just a casual observation.

We're talking about De Bruyne being a playmaker, so if we actually use some scrutiny, how many of those assists have come when he has been operating as a playmaker? His two best games at home where he was responsible for numerous assists and goals were Newcastle and Sunderland. Both games he wasn't playing as a playmaker when he made those contributions, he was playing wide. Notably, David Silva was playing in both of those games. As the playmaker.

De Bruyne started as the playmaker against Newcastle, and was dreadful, and got moved after 25 minutes. De Bruyne played as a playmaker against Everton last week, and was dreadful. He got brought off, Silva came on as playmaker and we absolutely battered Everton and should have won.

So for you and others who are asking for De Bruyne to be our playmaker, I'll ask it again, which games specifically has he operated as City's playmaker and played well? Please do not do what Dax did and list a load of games when he didn't play as a playmaker, because it's just a waste of everyone's time.

 

[birchwoodgingerste]

It's a stupid argument de bruyne works better from wide areas and silva as playmaker but unquestionably both players should play. The obvious thing is to bench yaya away from home.

 

[mad zab]

Bit of a strange post this mate. You say you don't rely on stats, but then in the next sentence use assist and goal stats to back up your point?

Also, you are using the assist and goal stats as evidence that my post doesn't hold up to scrutiny?

Taking a casual look at how many assists he's got at home is hardly scrutiny is it? It's just a casual observation.

We're talking about De Bruyne being a playmaker, so if we actually use some scrutiny, how many of those assists have come when he has been operating as a playmaker? His two best games at home where he was responsible for numerous assists and goals were Newcastle and Sunderland. Both games he wasn't playing as a playmaker when he made those contributions, he was playing wide. Notably, David Silva was playing in both of those games. As the playmaker.

De Bruyne started as the playmaker against Newcastle, and was dreadful, and got moved after 25 minutes. De Bruyne played as a playmaker against Everton last week, and was dreadful. He got brought off, Silva came on as playmaker and we absolutely battered Everton and should have won.

So for you and others who are asking for De Bruyne to be our playmaker, I'll ask it again, which games specifically has he operated as City's playmaker and played well. Please do not do what Dax did and list a load of games when he didn't play as a playmaker, because it's just a waste of everyone's time.

They are not stats but facts. The reason why I gave them was because you were saying he struggles against packed defences.

When did I say he has played as a playmaker for us? He has switched in a couple of games, but started usually in the wide areas. What I am disagreeing with you, is that I believe he is a playmaker. This IMO is his best position and he should rotate with Silva, which would keep both players fresh.

Where he has struggled is away from home. You started this thread by asking if he could still command a place in the starting 11. At home I would say yes, but away from home no.

 

[Dax777]

Lol! You've used this "emotional" line 4 times now, I don't think it's as funny or clever a line as you appear to think it is.

You could probably get away with sneaking it out once, but 4 times you're now becoming like the lonely guy in the pub who repeatedly says "Computer says no" or "Am I bovvered" in a desperate attempt to fit in.

The irony of your "emotional" line is that I and @schfc6 have both given detailed posts, based on the intricacies of football as to why De Bruyne isn't suited to being a playmaker for Manchester City.

If you and that other guy don't understand it, that's ok. It's a sign of intelligence to hold your hands up and say you don't understand, to ask for someone to explain it to you, ask questions.

But it's a sign of fear and embarassment when you don't understand something and instead of asking questions you try to come out on the offensive.

Mine and Schfc's analysis of Silva and De Bruyne is based on watching and playing football for years and understanding how it works, understanding how City play, how Silva plays. It's the opposite of emotional, it's a cold tactical analysis. If you don't understand, that's ok, but don't try and come out on the offensive because it just makes you look silly.

I was being diplomatic when I called you 'emotional'. At least that's what I hope it was, the alternative, would be to conclude you were flat out just lying to make a polemic point.

Here are the factual breakdown of the 1st 25 minutes.

1. City created 6 chances, had 61% of possesion. In that period DeBryune was involved in 4 of the 6 chances created.

Specifically regarding KDB in the first 25:
In that time DeBryune misplaced one pass (around minute 6 or so) Sterling passes to him and he mispasses it back behind Sterling and gives up a throw in. That was his only misplaced ball in the first 25 minutes, he completed 10 of 12 passes. One other pass was intercepted when Silva failed to cut into the box (min 23 or thereabouts)

His involvement in the game:
Our first shot on goal? A DeBryune freekick that the Dutchman parries, Silva gets to the ball and cuts back off that freekick and Aguero/Fernando miss out on the scramble for our 2nd chance.

3rd chance, Hart clears up field, NC leftback muffs a back pass header, Silva slips in but unable to control his lob over the keeper. Good chance wasted.

4th chance created, DeBryune interchange with Sterling, gets it back then cuts it back to an overlapping, Kolarov who puts a cross for an Aguero header.

5th chances created, DeBryune picks up ball wide left forward finds a cutting Fernandihno, who takes it down the line, Silva in tbe box raises his hand for the ball, Dihno cross it to him, but Chance is lost as ball slips thru Silva's legs in the 18 box.

5th chance created, a weak Sterling shot from outside, that was started by a DeBryune pinpoint thru- pass to Aguero over the top.

6th chance, Fernando latches on to a ball and picks out Aguero, who fluffs it.

You claimed also that DeBryune was so bad, Pellars had to move him out wide and move Silva to 10. Lmao. Really?

A guy who created or was involved in 4 of the 6 chances we had in the first 25 mminuts, was diposessed only once in the box. Completed 10 of his 12 passes, started 2 of the 3 couter attacks and made 1 tackle to boot. That is 'diabolical'?
Silva in the First 25 minutes
Comparatively, Silva created or was involved in 3 of the 6 chances, had 2 unforced errors ( including a chance sliping thru his legs in the box) completed 7 of 8 passes or and was dispossed 2ice. Oh, the ball Silva wiffed on in the ball was started by DeBryune too.

Furthermore, it was Silva who failed to track his man Wiljnaldum, who strolled pass him into our box to pick up the rebound and and put in a cros to Mitrovic for there goal.

The above fact, and Silva's general lack of defensive support of Zaba, was probably what necessitated the switching Silva to the middle, and DeBryune right until Navas could be brought in. By minute 27 you can see DeBryune marking Wiljnaldum tighly on the right.

So like I said you were being 'emotional.' And lets just leave it at that. As the alternative isn't as flattering.

 

[schfc6]

I'll ignore the insults as I didn't think I had said anything remotely condescending or abusive. As it happens I was just looking at their overall passing stats for the season and you are right. Silva is better having played 500'ish minutes less. I suspect though that what weights it quite so heavily in Silva's favour is the first five games of the season when we were imperious full stop. I think come the end of the season those stats will be closer together.

Do you not think referring to grown adults as 'kids' just because they have a different opinion as condescending?

So yes, you've got the stats up, De Bruyne is way down on all our midfielders when it comes to ball retention, just as I said.

To suggests that a player even his biggest fans consider inconsistent who gives the ball away nearly every four passes is more suited to a central play maker is simply wrong.

Fans get their knickers in a twist(not saying you are) because people disagree with their point. No one, including the op is doubting De Bruyne's attributes or contributions, I personally can't wait to see him develop at City.

But to suggest on the evidence we have from both Silva and De Bruyne that Kev is better suited to a central play maker in a possession based team is simply daft. His attributes to date don't suit it, his statistics don't support it and most importantly his nor the team's performances support it.