Kompany and De Jong....

[BoyBlue_1985]

Kompany is incredible and the 2nd best CB in the league.

However De Jong is absurdly overrated by city fans (due to his commitment and warrior-like qualities).
He is a useful squad player, nothing more.

He is overrated to astronomical amounts because he is commited

 

[Sabster]

Hart, Richards, Zabaleta, Kompany, Lescott, Barry, Yaya, Silva, Tevez, Balotelli, Johnson are all as good or better than De Jong. I just don't buy how effective he is at breaking up plays when Barry has more tackles, won more headers and committed more fouls in the league so far.

The real work is closing off angles before the opponent can use them. Like Mascherano and Makalele, NDJ is often one or two steps ahead of the game. He also benefits from his reputation, midfielders just don't fancy moving into his area. It's in sharp contrast to Barry who can be very passive off the ball, eventually arriving a fraction too late and has to foul. He also combines well with other players when closing down.

In reference to the comparison between Mascherano and De Jong - Mascherano is in a completely different league (last season he made 3x as many tackles 4x the no. of interceptions and completed the most passes of anyone in the league).<br /><br />-- Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:17 pm --<br /><br />

Kompany is incredible and the 2nd best CB in the league.

However De Jong is absurdly overrated by city fans (due to his commitment and warrior-like qualities).
He is a useful squad player, nothing more.

So who would you play instead?

Milner/Barry - Yaya Toure - Silva

with De Jong coming in for big games.

But preferably we will sign another cm

 

[Vienna_70]

The real work is closing off angles before the opponent can use them. Like Mascherano and Makalele, NDJ is often one or two steps ahead of the game. He also benefits from his reputation, midfielders just don't fancy moving into his area. It's in sharp contrast to Barry who can be very passive off the ball, eventually arriving a fraction too late and has to foul. He also combines well with other players when closing down.

In reference to the comparison between Mascherano and De Jong - Mascherano is in a completely different league (last season he made 3x as many tackles 4x the no. of interceptions and completed the most passes of anyone in the league).

-- Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:17 pm --

So who would you play instead?

Milner/Barry - Yaya Toure - Silva

with De Jong coming in for big games.

So, if he's a useful squad player, nothing more, why would you bring him in for the big games?

You have just completely contradicted yourself.

Also, there is at least on idiot on here, who is constantly slagging off Vinny.

 

[King Geedorah]

Hart, Richards, Zabaleta, Kompany, Lescott, Barry, Yaya, Silva, Tevez, Balotelli, Johnson are all as good or better than De Jong. I just don't buy how effective he is at breaking up plays when Barry has more tackles, won more headers and committed more fouls in the league so far.

The real work is closing off angles before the opponent can use them. Like Mascherano and Makalele, NDJ is often one or two steps ahead of the game. He also benefits from his reputation, midfielders just don't fancy moving into his area. It's in sharp contrast to Barry who can be very passive off the ball, eventually arriving a fraction too late and has to foul. He also combines well with other players when closing down.

The other thing NDJ does well is take fewer touches before releasing the ball. He helps set the tempo, and we're a far more effective counter attacking unit simply because he reacts first when a set-play breaks down, and drives forward the 6 yards which open up the whole pitch.

Are we seriously calling De Jong quality because he closes off angles and moves the ball quickly?

This is the problem with bias, you have created a role in your head for him. When in reality we could do with so much more than he currently does. Barry has to take up the slack in terms of being a driving force, moving the ball forwards, closing down men while De Jong sits back, winning headers etc just so De Jong can close off angles and play square balls very quickly.

I don't dislike De Jong because he is clearly a very talented footballer, what I dislike is how safe either he or Mancini plays it wrt his role in the team. I can understand specialisation on the flanks or up front but we need people who can do it all in midfield. De Jong can quite clearly do it all but for whatever reason he doesn't.<br /><br />-- Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:45 pm --<br /><br />

So, if he's a useful squad player, nothing more, why would you bring him in for the big games?

You have just completely contradicted yourself.

Also, there is at least on idiot on here, who is constantly slagging off Vinny.

Because assuming big games are those against the other top 5 only 8 out of 38 games a season require De Jong's current role in the team. BEing required for 8 games sounds like a squad player to me.

 

[Vienna_70]

Geedorah.

Barry can do what he does, because he knows NdJ is behind him covering if he loses possession.

Nigel does for City what Makelele did for the chavs, and I don't ever remember anyone criticising him.

Why have we looked so vulnerable in the last few matches, if not for the fact that de Jong has been absent?

 

[King Geedorah]

Geedorah.

Barry can do what he does, because he knows NdJ is behind him covering if he loses possession.

Nigel does for City what Makelele did for the chavs, and I don't ever remember anyone criticising him.

Why have we looked so vulnerable in the last few matches, if not for the fact that de Jong has been absent?

I don't deny De Jong has an effect on the game but his effect is similar to that of a fifth defender. So yes I think you're right in saying we look more vulnerable.

What I'm really saying is offensively De Jong is a complete passenger and does less work going forward than Mario/Yaya/Who-ever else is getting slated for a lack of work rate do going backwards. I can't even accept he is limited like Lescott, to me its absolutely bizarre how little he contributes when he is technically good. Now maybe its Mancini/Hughes in which case I'm completely out of order. But right now all I see is Barry winning the ball more and doing more offensively while De Jong sits back.

Makelele played in an extremely disciplined Chelsea side who rarely made the mistakes we do. If our defence could keep it tight then we'd pick up a ot of points with De Jong and co defending. As it is we seem to constantly concede early and spend the rest of the game with a side built to defend trying to break down a well disciplined defence.

 

[persvenality cult]

Are we seriously calling De Jong quality because he closes off angles and moves the ball quickly?

No, it's because he does it expertly.

This is the problem with bias, you have created a role in your head for him.

No, that's what you're about to do.

When in reality we could do with so much more than he currently does. Barry has to take up the slack in terms of being a driving force, moving the ball forwards, closing down men while De Jong sits back, winning headers etc just so De Jong can close off angles and play square balls very quickly.

Barry lacks the mobility and has always been passive. De Jong is doing his leg work. It's not a zero-sum between defensive and offensive players in the midfield. When De Jong plays, we win the ball back more, and quicker in situations were the opponent has committed to attack. His presence also frees up those in front of him to close down further up the pitch, or to commit forward more freely.

I don't dislike De Jong because he is clearly a very talented footballer, what I dislike is how safe either he or Mancini plays it wrt his role in the team. I can understand specialisation on the flanks or up front but we need people who can do it all in midfield. De Jong can quite clearly do it all but for whatever reason he doesn't.

I said exactly that year, but he has won me round. He is doing it all, with the exception of scoring.

 

[Dax777]

Kompany is incredible and the 2nd best CB in the league.

However De Jong is absurdly overrated by city fans (due to his commitment and warrior-like qualities).
He is a useful squad player, nothing more.

I wholeheartedly agree with this comment in its entirety. Kompany 2nd only to Vidic in the league, and De Jong is first only in the mind of City. :)

That said, I like De Jong and I don't think City needs a new player in that position. But if folks want me to mention better DMs, I can.

Wilshere
Song
Huddlestone
Diara (Madrid, and ex- Chelsea, Arsenal,
Masherano
Xabi Alonso
Inler
Busquet
e.t.c

De Jong is a very good City player, but he is not the best DM in the world. Just a great one for City.

 

[avoidconfusion]

don't think kompany or de jong would get in any of the other top 5 first 11 to be fair

Obvious WUM is obvious

 

[King Geedorah]

Barry lacks the mobility and has always been passive. De Jong is doing his leg work. It's not a zero-sum between defensive and offensive players in the midfield. When De Jong plays, we win the ball back more, and quicker in situations were the opponent has committed to attack. His presence also frees up those in front of him to close down further up the pitch, or to commit forward more freely.

The statistics show that Barry wins the ball more (Made more tackles, won more headers and I can't find the interceptions) and they also show he covers more ground than De Jong. The rest of your post is what you perceive, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong because I have no right to but in terms of what can be proven ie who wins the ball more; Barry comes out on top.