Labour / Tory Party meltdown Referendum fallout

[bobmcfc]

Hilary Benn is now on the Andrew Marr show this could be a good watch

Is that sky news or bbc

 

[bluesoup]

Hilary Benn is now on the Andrew Marr show this could be a good watch

Just pressed the red record button! Quite like Hilary Ben, let's see if Hilary can oust the insipid Corbyn and his gray leadership.

 

[whp.blue]

Is that sky news or bbc

Bbc

 

[urban genie]

I

think it's exactly the right time for labour. Rip the bandaid off now and start a new era, everything is up in the air anyway.

But what new era, non of the PLP doing this will get voted in as leader, Benn will have alienated a lot of the membership so he has no chance, the rest don't inspire anything, milliband is too out of touch with the last few years and not an MP(also I expect he likes his nice job in the US). The parliamentry party has seriously messed this up since corbyns appointment. It should have been compromise not confrontation from the start, and maybe jezza would have stood down pre election once the party had repaired itself as a lot expect he would. But the self centred PLP wanted their way of nothing, I feel ashamed today of the party I have been a member of all my working life and I don't blame just the leader for that I blame the lot.
We look shambolic and I don't see labour surviving as it is.

 

[urban genie]

Corbyn is no leader and never should have been elected in the first place but you are right.

Again, the PLP is ignoring the electorate and its core support heartlands and seemingly is unable to learn from mistakes.

Labour MP's living on the South bank may well have wanted to remain in the EU however their constituents in many of the poorer ares of the UK did not and they need to remember who voted them in and that's its their jobs to represent them.

Its this failure from all the main parties that is leading to a rise in the far left and right.

Very true

 

[malg]

Are you saying Corbyn wamted to leave but lied and told people to vote remain?

He is well known to be a Euro sceptic. His Parliamentary party were for Remain so as leader he had to support that. That's politics, and leadership, you sometimes have to support something you don't 100% believe in. He didn't exactly set the hustings on fire with his support though. However, it just appears to me to be more mard arsedishness (!) from the Remain camp. The British public have decided to vote 'Out', so our elected leaders should now get on with running the country.

Allegedly half the Shadow Cabinet are resigning today. I can't see Corbyn doing a runner though, and his Shadow Cabinet will now veer even more Left, which may no out be a good thing for Labour.

 

[whp.blue]

Wow Andrew Marrs opening statement was pretty strong and pretty accurate

 

[bobmcfc]

Bbc

Marr just came across very well there.

 

[BimboBob]

Labour have been a fucking joke since Jeremy was hoisted into power. He's got principles from the 60's/ 70's and won't change them. He hated Europe and then had to try and sell a Remain campaign that he didn't believe in. The voters knew this, as they did with Cameron.

Will he stay? Personally I hope so as Labour in charge makes me wince but another part of me thinks we need two strong parties in politics. We barely have one.

He says he will just replace the splitters. I say he should just step down.

 

[whp.blue]

He is well known to be a Euro sceptic. His Parliamentary party were for Remain so as leader he had to support that. That's politics, and leadership, you sometimes have to support something you don't 100% believe in. He didn't exactly set the hustings on fire with his support though. However, it just appears to me to be more mard arsedishness (!) from the Remain camp. The British public have decided to vote 'Out', so our elected leaders should now get on with running the country.

Allegedly half the Shadow Cabinet are resigning today. I can't see Corbyn doing a runner though, and his Shadow Cabinet will now veer even more Left, which may no out be a good thing for Labour.

That doesn"t exactly shout strong leadership does it

 

[bluebaja]

In the new one he goes in the shop and comes out as a different nationality, every episode ends with faridge booting him into the English channel

Interesting Mr benn fact, there were only 13 episodes

Is that true, only 13 episodes ? I'd have guessed dozens....

 

[hilts]

This is a conundrum to be sure, he has the support of the members who want a left wing philosophy, the parliamentary party want to be more new labour and the voters will naturally be a mixture of both. If they get rid the same process that got him there will begin again however the candidates put forward will this time ensure a more central leader much to the dismay of the members.

The lib dems appear to have fallen off the earth, ukip don't need to be here anymore and the main two seem to be fragmented. We really need new parties with people making new choices.

 

[nmc]

So, Labour MPs turning on their leader who actually didn't want to remain in the EU - he's probably more in touch with the British public than any other leader. Ok, let's get rid then.

Just goes to show that the Remain campaign are still bitter. It's fucking ridiculous.

You might want to take a closer look at the Leave Camp ? Beyond Farage there appears to be very little enthusiasm to press on and create the 'brave new world' they all promised. 'Taking our Country back' is going to a very long, difficult and ardous process that will take 5 to 10 years and distract us from no end of other things. No one actually seems to want to press the button on article 50 (surely theres no time like the present - get on with it fuck Europe off and start he process) maybe the real issue is that many MP's on the Leave side didn't actually want it to come to this - Gove and Johnson give the impression that they wanted to lose narowly but have suddenly woken up to the realisation that they have won. Johnson's real plan was to lose narrowly, damage Osbourne and make him self the only natural successor to Cameron but he's over achieved and Cameron has walked away immediately - leaving Boris with little option to become Prime Minister with an agenda few would relish - the next few years are going to be dominated by the extration from Europe and it will be bumpy - even if it is worth it in th end. If the over exagerated benefits promised by the Leave campaign are not delivered - particularly immigration slashed to 10's of thousands per year - Boris will find himself in a difficult position with a public that has been promised and expects. The Tories face a far tougher 4 years ahead than the Labour Party and they know it. The real fly in the ointment is where do UKIP go now - no doubt they will form into a far right nationalist (subtly) anti immigration party that may become a permanent home for the disaffected - not only in Labours ranks but the Tories too. British politics is undergoing a sysmic change and more heads will role before this is over.

 

[malg]

That doesn"t shout strong leadership does it

I would agree with you, and was surprised he didn't go with his personal beliefs. However, if he had done that, then he would have been slated as well.

I think Labour really need to think carefully here, as they could lose their core support.

 

[whp.blue]

This is a conundrum to be sure, he has the support of the members who want a left wing philosophy, the parliamentary party want to be more new labour and the voters will naturally be a mixture of both. If they get rid the same process that got him there will begin again however the candidates put forward will this time ensure a more central leader much to the dismay of the members.

The lib dems appear to have fallen off the earth, ukip don't need to be here anymore and the main two seem to be fragmented. We really need new parties with people making new choices.

Not sure about UKIP they will be about to make sure we don"t get EU light imho

 

[Newman Noggs]

However, it just appears to me to be more mard arsedishness (!) from the Remain camp. The British public have decided to vote 'Out', so our elected leaders should now get on with running the country. .

This is one of the many interesting aspects of this referendum. I think most of us have "known" for years that most politicians are career-building chancers untroubled by any notion that they might be in Parliament to represent the electorate. This meltdown and hasty retreat from the front line now that the prospect of real leadership is required simply confirms it.

 

[BlueAnorak]

The candidate that should have stood last time is Dan Jarvis.
I can understand he wanted to protect his family from press intrusion but I've never heard more sense spoken by a politician in my life. His military background would scare the Tories to death as well.
If there's a change, we'd probably end up with Londonista Chucka Umunna though - Another "I'd prefer a hole in the head" candidate who will have serious problems making a connection with those who voted leave to give the London elites a good kicking.

 

[nmc]

They have been sitting around waiting for an reason to oust jezza, but this was the wrong time.
The tories are a mess and the country unsure of the future, any self respecting menber of the PLP should have seen this as an opportunity to contribute the reshape and rebuild of our country, not start arsing about with petty in fighting.
Jeremy alway needed to go before an election I expect, but the way he wanted to shape the party into a more social just, fairer party will mean someone with the same ideals would only be elected in a leadership contest, as the membership want that on the whole.
I fear that this is the death of my Party and I won't be blaming corbyn for it, he has been fighting against a tide since day one and he has faults but the progress wing who have not adapted to the changing politics of today are destroying labour, it's not like it was in 97 anymore and they have to realise that politics has shifted.
If a leadership election is called I hope Clive Lewis puts himself forward

You are right - that was the plan - dump Corbyn before the next General Election - but the fear is that the next GE could be later this year! And too many Labour MP's think there jobs are at risk - this is the PLP driving this - not the party at large.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Like him or not the media have been out to get Corbyn since day one, he'll be toast shortly and all the blame for the out vote will be dumped on him.

Well he has proved himself to be utterly and totally useless during the referendum so it's really not really that difficult a connection.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

This is a conundrum to be sure, he has the support of the members who want a left wing philosophy, the parliamentary party want to be more new labour and the voters will naturally be a mixture of both. If they get rid the same process that got him there will begin again however the candidates put forward will this time ensure a more central leader much to the dismay of the members.

The lib dems appear to have fallen off the earth, ukip don't need to be here anymore and the main two seem to be fragmented. We really need new parties with people making new choices.

This all day long, whilst the majority of politicians involved here are using this referendum for career progression and eyes on number ten, the plan of exiting and negotiating with the Eu needs implementing.

There's no stand out leaders you could trust on both sides going forward and will have to wait till the Autumn for a new Pm whilst we drift along as a country.