Last whites of the east end

[urban genie]

I may be wrong but wasn't the east end a massive royal forest used for hunting until Hugenots fleeing persecusion in france settled there and with it's docks and manufacturing was mainly populated by immigrants from europe and the empire (large irish community, central & easten european jewish communities etc). So basically has always been a multicultural area, pointless tv show really

 

[Metalartin]

I may be wrong but wasn't the east end a massive royal forest used for hunting until Hugenots fleeing persecusion in france settled there and with it's docks and manufacturing was mainly populated by immigrants from europe and the empire (large irish community, central & easten european jewish communities etc). So basically has always been a multicultural area, pointless tv show really

Yep it's business as usual totally...

Sarcasm aside what you described was diversity and most of them did integrate which doesn't mean they can't identify as Irish or Jewish etc... they spoke English, learned the culture(to fit in... to integrate) and there was no massive shift to the point there were no English at all over huge areas.

edit: Ah I don't know whether it's even worth discussing anymore at this point other than tightening up immigration laws what else can be done? Plus I dunno it seems people are too afraid of even identifying as what they are these days... is a Jamaican man made to feel bad about identifying as Jamaican or Black, taking any pride in his roots, his heritage, even identifying with a certain group as his people?(hasn't everyone always done that on some level?) Is that really that bad? I don't think so. Also maybe there's some going over the top like native English will suddenly stop fucking and making babies. Yeh I think I'm done with this thread.

 

[inbetween]

It's ironic really, how can people feel isolated in their own communities but also demand another group of people should feel isolated as a result. If everyone suddenly emigrated to the Middle East, would you integrate, mix with the community and become a Muslim, of course not you wouldn't! The hypocrisy is ridiculous and this whole thing is just an excuse because at the end of the day no-one will say it but a group of muslims or eastern europeans are not welcome in the community, they are undesirables. It isn't about integrating, it is because they are there and because they are different.

Anyway, why do the thousands who emigrate to Benidorm every year not integrate into the Spanish community but stick with their fellow English expats? Why choose somewhere that is effectively a British colony instead of moving to a predominately Spanish speaking area... Oh of course that doesn't count!

 

[urban genie]

Yep it's business as usual totally...

Sarcasm aside what you described was diversity and most of them did integrate which doesn't mean they can't identify as Irish or Jewish etc... they spoke English, learned the culture(to fit in... to integrate) and there was no massive shift to the point there were no English at all over huge areas.

edit: Ah I don't know whether it's even worth discussing anymore at this point other than tightening up immigration laws what else can be done? Plus I dunno it seems people are too afraid of even identifying as what they are these days... is a Jamaican man made to feel bad about identifying as Jamaican or Black, taking any pride of his roots or his heritage? Is that really that bad? I don't think so. Also maybe there's some going over the top like native English will suddenly stop fucking and making babies. Yeh I think I'm done with this thread.

on the first point the Irish and jewish communities were shunned and vilified for a couple of hundred years and were not allowed to assimilate that's why you used to have areas called little ireland where most of the irish community lived due to NINA, it took centuries and changes in our own society that changed that, the communities this programme targeted have only been around some 40-50 years so it is not so much different really, new communities looked upon as a threat to the older ones, nonsense really if you ask me.

On the second point we are such a diverse nation all we need to break this splitting of communities into categories, while celebrating the different cultures that make up the country, west indian, european, asian, african et. If your family originates from jamaica or poland or just down the road, shouldn't make a difference be proud of both your heritage and englishness.

 

[Metalartin]

It's ironic really, how can people feel isolated in their own communities but also demand another group of people should feel isolated as a result. If everyone suddenly emigrated to the Middle East, would you integrate, mix with the community and become a Muslim, of course not you wouldn't! The hypocrisy is ridiculous and this whole thing is just an excuse because at the end of the day no-one will say it but a group of muslims or eastern europeans are not welcome in the community, they are undesirables. It isn't about integrating, it is because they are there and because they are different.

Anyway, why do the thousands who emigrate to Benidorm every year not integrate into the Spanish community but stick with their fellow English expats? Why choose somewhere that is effectively a British colony instead of moving to a predominately Spanish speaking area... Oh of course that doesn't count!

Ok last post because I still don't see it that way and I can't see why you do.

Emigrate is temporary Immigrate is permanent if it was temporary then that changes it. If it was to immigrate you would probably be better off to integrate and mix with the community in the long run... you wouldn't have to denounce your god(if you have one) and become Muslim... are you saying that's what we do???

As I said Benidorm and Costa Del Sol etc is a little different they bring money into Spain, encourage more tourism which is even more money into Spain... on some level this has been encouraged or it wouldn't have taken off. They could have made it more difficult quite easily which would have put a lot off since it's basically the sunshine and lifestyle they were going for not to make money most already had that.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Ok last post because I still don't see it that way and I can't see why you do.

Emigrate is temporary Immigrate is permanent if it was temporary then that changes it. If it was to immigrate you would probably be better off to integrate and mix with the community in the long run... you wouldn't have to denounce your god(if you have one) and become Muslim... are you saying that's what we do???

As I said Benidorm and Costa Del Sol etc is a little different they bring money into Spain, encourage more tourism which is even more money into Spain... on some level this has been encouraged or it wouldn't have taken off. They could have made it more difficult quite easily which would have put a lot off since it's basically the sunshine and lifestyle they were going for not to make money most already had that.

So it's ok for the rich?

 

[Metalartin]

on the first point the Irish and jewish communities were shunned and vilified for a couple of hundred years and were not allowed to assimilate that's why you used to have areas called little ireland where most of the irish community lived due to NINA, it took centuries and changes in our own society that changed that, the communities this programme targeted have only been around some 40-50 years so it is not so much different really, new communities looked upon as a threat to the older ones, nonsense really if you ask me.

So what you're saying is they will eventually integrate in a few centuries even though ways of thinking and acceptance has come leaps and bounds since those days... night and day really. Also I must confess I hadn't watched it when I started discussing it and I probably shouldn't have done that and it seems it wasn't quite as bad as I imagined. I have seen changes like this myself though, people who haven't try and say "oh those areas were always run down garbage everywhere... it's no different" They bloody weren't(you can tell the people who just drove through a place once and now they're an expert) some areas might have been poor but they'd hand out arse kickings for tipping and stuff like that if they saw someone doing that. Some examples of their(immigrants) own gardens sometimes were a bit of a shock to me when I was younger(lets just say it didn't look like they knew what bins were for), I know they might be used to different in other parts of the world and maybe it was a while ago since I've even passed through(hopefully the council straightened them out anyway) but I sort of saw the devaluation and people getting out fast argument right there when it was brought up. At the end of the day though it's nothing that couldn't be sorted with a change in attitudes.

 

[Metalartin]

So it's ok for the rich?

Wouldn't say it's ok(us still in the UK are nothing to do with that anyway why's that an argument for loose immigration control?) but it's clearly not the same is it? They reaping rewards from that situation as much as it's hurting them.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Wouldn't say it's ok(us still in the UK are nothing to do with that anyway why's that an argument for lose immigration control?) but it's clearly not the same is it? They reaping rewards from that situation as much as it's hurting them.

The argument for immigration is the fact the UK economy is dependent on it to keep economic growth positive, to improve productivity and keep the population from ageing too drastically. Immigrants are the people who keep the Ponzi scheme going. If it is stopped then very hard decisions on tax, forced saving, reductions in services particularly healthcare will have to be made and we will have to deal with an ageing and potentially declining population, which will require a lot of sacrifice which I am not sure anyone wants to make.

The problem for me is housing shortages are blamed on the poor immigrants taking houses in the worst parts of Britaim rather than couples who live in 6 bedroom homes and own 3 others or speculators buying homes and them being empty or homes knocked down and not replaced etc

 

[Metalartin]

The argument for immigration is the fact the UK economy is dependent on it to keep economic growth positive, to improve productivity and keep the population from ageing too drastically. Immigrants are the people who keep the Ponzi scheme going. If it is stopped then very hard decisions on tax, forced saving, reductions in services particularly healthcare will have to be made and we will have to deal with an ageing and potentially declining population, which will require a lot of sacrifice which I am not sure anyone wants to make.

Ponzi scheme? Shouldn't we actually be moving away from fabricated wealth based on moving money around that doesn't exist rather than accelerating it? I thought the whole point of people who believe that is what's happening is that it will definitely crash at some point, so why make it worse?

The problem for me is housing shortages are blamed on the poor immigrants taking houses in the worst parts of Britaim rather than couples who live in 6 bedroom homes and own 3 others or speculators buying homes and them being empty or homes knocked down and not replaced etc

Yeah we have too many people paid far too much for a not so honest days work in this country... in fact the world over, which breeds more greed and inequality.

Far too early for this depressing topic for me anyway, should have resisted clicking on this one today. :)