Spot on.
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Laurence Fox launches political party
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
Spot on.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Would you be against a safe space for a disabled people who worked in an office?
Mindfulness workshops are not the same as safe spaces. But I suppose you could practice mindfulness in a safe space if you wanted.
I honestly don't see why it is an issue and if Fox hadn't used his profile to make it an issue would anyone really give a fuck. It doesn't affect probably 99.9999999% of the population and Fox is using an issue i don't think he understands to raise his profile and appeal to certain elements in society who get all snowflaky about these things.
Yes.
My focus would be on improving the overall environment of the office so that disabled people don't feel they need a space away from harassment, discrimination or physical harm (which Google defines as a safe space).
If they wanted counselling or wanted to go to a quieter part of the office on their lunch break, I'd facilitate that too but that's not the same as a safe space. Able-bodied people would also be given that privilege as would all races and all genders because no matter what your hand is in life, everybody has their struggles from time to time.
But to repeat, there would not be a checklist of immutable characteristics that would prevent people from accessing any of these services.
hilts
Well-Known Member
You are taking it literally.
As I have said in our workshops its a place for a time out, to reflect on what has been said, its like a quiet carriage on a train. Its not nothing to do with personal safety, its about personal mental wellbeing and trust that one can be themselves but still have the option of a separate place if need arise.
This is why clowns like Fox are so dangerous, they dive head first into a debate without thinking what it actually entails because it sounds something it is not.
We used to call it in our office.
Fuck this shit I'm going out for a fag
Rascal
El Presidente
Nobody is preventing anybody from doing anything. Why do you think it would?Yes.
My focus would be on improving the overall environment of the office so that disabled people don't feel they need a space away from harassment, discrimination or physical harm (which Google defines as a safe space).
If they wanted counselling or wanted to go to a quieter part of the office on their lunch break, I'd facilitate that too but that's not the same as a safe space. Able-bodied people would also be given that privilege as would all races and all genders because no matter what your hand is in life, everybody has their struggles from time to time.
But to repeat, there would not be a checklist of immutable characteristics that would prevent people from accessing any of these services.
When we have mental health workshops we have safe spaces for everyone with people on hand to speak to if need be, I don't suffer from mental health issues thankfully but I am not denied the services because they are there for everyone if need be.
This is what Fox is doing, he is inventing division when there is none, because he doesn't understand the issues.
When i see him campaigning to open up elitist organisations to those who are locked out from them on class terms i might listen to him, but as he is not interested in class, only race there is little chance of that.
bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
Good news - he is doing a Katie Hopkins and bankrupting himself
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Nobody is preventing anybody from doing anything. Why do you think it would?
When we have mental health workshops we have safe spaces for everyone with people on hand to speak to if need be, I don't suffer from mental health issues thankfully but I am not denied the services because they are there for everyone if need be.
This is what Fox is doing, he is inventing division when there is none, because he doesn't understand the issues.
When i see him campaigning to open up elitist organisations to those who are locked out from them on class terms i might listen to him, but as he is not interested in class, only race there is little chance of that.
There is an implication that safe spaces for black people excludes people of other races. That's just a normal interpretation of that statement and if so, it is Sainsbury's that are literally creating division as are the people on this thread who have defended it.
Rascal
El Presidente
Who feels divided? Because I don't think anybody "defending" it feels its divisive. Its a safe space that is all and why would it bother anybody anyway. Why do you personally feel its being divisive towards you?There is an implication that safe spaces for black people excludes people of other races. That's just a normal interpretation of that statement and if so, it is Sainsbury's that are literally creating division as are the people on this thread who have defended it.
It is the same arguments as to why is there a Black Police officers association, or why is there is a Black history month, its not forced segregation, its voluntary segregation and the opposite to it is enforced integration. That smacks of authoritarianism to me. Its almost the argument of when in this country do as we do and intergrate into our culture and forget your own culture without even realising that even the UK indigineous population is already a multitude of cultures. In Manchester we have distinct cultures, City and United are two to begin with.
I cant help but feel you are arguing for enforced integration, which of course means those who do not comply are ostracised yet there has always been room for outsiders and those who differ from the cultural norms in our society.
The idea that safe spaces protect people from being open to confrontational ideas and results in them being in self reflected echo chambers kind of misses the point of why safe spaces exist in the first place. It comes down to the old freedom of speech and right to offend argument. Those most against safe spaces are those who feel there freedom to speak is being assaulted, or in other words there freedom to propagandise and pontificate against the very people who the safe space is designed to help.
I wish people like Fox would be honest, hiding behind this non issue to create an issue he can pontificate about in my opinion hides his original reasoning for making the point. If he just said " i hate black people, they stink" at least we would see him for what he is rather than making a round the houses point about exclusion from a safe space that he would never want to be in anyway.
And all the while these ridiculous culture wars continue, the RW are using terms like do-gooder, virtue signaller, woke, snowflake etc etc all to close down the very debates they demand should be discussed. The very notion you are not allowed to say something because its not PC or fly a union jack because its offensive is so ridiculous its scary. All that these culture wars achieve is division of the working class, that bothers me far more. An upper class cockwomble from Harrow starting a party with Tory donor money only seeks one thing and that is to divide the working class and make sure the capitalist class are not under threat. He is doing this by using arguments people in general have no issue with beforehand but once he has raised it and sated his need for attention he can bask in the reflected controversary.
The other argument is the British culture argument and that certain things are anti British, its an accusation aimed at the left on a regular basis because the left is deemed unpatriotic. Johnson and Farage use this sort of jingoistic rhetoric as it sates the minds of the little Englander brigade, those who live in an imaginary world of village green cricket, warm summers, Spitfires, Mrs Miggins pie shop, Rule Britannia and other assorted nonsense. This is the culture the likes of Fox are trying to save, he has no interest in the culture of the working class, of the unemployed, the homeless, the hungry, no, he is more bothered that Sainsburys have offered black working class people a safe space.
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
Who feels divided? Because I don't think anybody "defending" it feels its divisive. Its a safe space that is all and why would it bother anybody anyway. Why do you personally feel its being divisive towards you?
It is the same arguments as to why is there a Black Police officers association, or why is there is a Black history month, its not forced segregation, its voluntary segregation and the opposite to it is enforced integration. That smacks of authoritarianism to me. Its almost the argument of when in this country do as we do and intergrate into our culture and forget your own culture without even realising that even the UK indigineous population is already a multitude of cultures. In Manchester we have distinct cultures, City and United are two to begin with.
I cant help but feel you are arguing for enforced integration, which of course means those who do not comply are ostracised yet there has always been room for outsiders and those who differ from the cultural norms in our society.
The idea that safe spaces protect people from being open to confrontational ideas and results in them being in self reflected echo chambers kind of misses the point of why safe spaces exist in the first place. It comes down to the old freedom of speech and right to offend argument. Those most against safe spaces are those who feel there freedom to speak is being assaulted, or in other words there freedom to propagandise and pontificate against the very people who the safe space is designed to help.
I wish people like Fox would be honest, hiding behind this non issue to create an issue he can pontificate about in my opinion hides his original reasoning for making the point. If he just said " i hate black people, they stink" at least we would see him for what he is rather than making a round the houses point about exclusion from a safe space that he would never want to be in anyway.
And all the while these ridiculous culture wars continue, the RW are using terms like do-gooder, virtue signaller, woke, snowflake etc etc all to close down the very debates they demand should be discussed. The very notion you are not allowed to say something because its not PC or fly a union jack because its offensive is so ridiculous its scary. All that these culture wars achieve is division of the working class, that bothers me far more. An upper class cockwomble from Harrow starting a party with Tory donor money only seeks one thing and that is to divide the working class and make sure the capitalist class are not under threat. He is doing this by using arguments people in general have no issue with beforehand but once he has raised it and sated his need for attention he can bask in the reflected controversary.
The other argument is the British culture argument and that certain things are anti British, its an accusation aimed at the left on a regular basis because the left is deemed unpatriotic. Johnson and Farage use this sort of jingoistic rhetoric as it sates the minds of the little Englander brigade, those who live in an imaginary world of village green cricket, warm summers, Spitfires, Mrs Miggins pie shop, Rule Britannia and other assorted nonsense. This is the culture the likes of Fox are trying to save, he has no interest in the culture of the working class, of the unemployed, the homeless, the hungry, no, he is more bothered that Sainsburys have offered black working class people a safe space.
'Forced integration', 'authoritarian'...
An opposition to single race spaces is one of the foundations of every liberal society in the world.
It's not about me being personally at a loss - I don't work at Sainsbury's as it happens, it's about what's right and wrong, and this idea is just plainly wrong as is the widely debunked idea that people are safer (emotionally, physically, whatever) by being exclusively with people of the same race.
It's inexcusable.
journolud
Well-Known Member
'Forced integration', 'authoritarian'...
An opposition to single race spaces is one of the foundations of every liberal society in the world.
It's not about me being personally at a loss - I don't work at Sainsbury's as it happens, it's about what's right and wrong, and this idea is just plainly wrong as is the widely debunked idea that people are safer (emotionally, physically, whatever) by being exclusively with people of the same race.
It's inexcusable.
I don't know who is embarrassing themselves more, you or Fox.
Alan Harper's Tash
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Dec 2010
- Messages
- 61,115
I don't know who is embarrassing themselves more, you or Fox.
Perhaps he is Fox. He does seem to be being a bit of a “fame monster” at the moment.