Leadership?

I spent five years coaching a top american football college team and learned a lot about this.

Traditionally we'd appoint captains who were the obvious charismatic guys. We found that's a mixed bag and can turn fast if things aren't going your way.

We moved to a philosophy of "deeds leads" and this worked much better. A case of leading by example. You could see everyone raising their game to match performances, and it lead to a lot less bitching.

I think City have the right idea, but we are very much in transition. When you have players like the full backs lingering around it can stall a full implementation of leadership in order to not rock the boat too much, after all we've done that a lot with removing the older leaders. Players like Zab and Kolarov have been through the wars for us and it's right they are shown a level of respect.

I'd also agree that Pep sees himself as the leader and if the system is implemented properly, he doesnt need someone on the pitch to do the job for him.
 
domalino said:
You're asking players to be aggressive on the pitch, charging down defenders and sprinting to every loose ball.

And it's surprising that these players sometimes see that aggression boil over? Why?

Have you watched Spurs lately? The most aggressive team in the league both within the laws of the game, and outside them - Rose, Alli and Walker are constantly getting in fights.
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But we are the only team who have had 3 red cards already,no gloss is going to cover that up,you can't possibly say it's ok can you?
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
I spent five years coaching a top american football college team and learned a lot about this.

Traditionally we'd appoint captains who were the obvious charismatic guys. We found that's a mixed bag and can turn fast if things aren't going your way.

We moved to a philosophy of "deeds leads" and this worked much better. A case of leading by example. You could see everyone raising their game to match performances, and it lead to a lot less bitching.

I think City have the right idea, but we are very much in transition. When you have players like the full backs lingering around it can stall a full implementation of leadership in order to not rock the boat too much, after all we've done that a lot with removing the older leaders. Players like Zab and Kolarov have been through the wars for us and it's right they are shown a level of respect.

I'd also agree that Pep sees himself as the leader and if the system is implemented properly, he doesnt need someone on the pitch to do the job for him.
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Which team mate if you dont mind me asking?

"deeds leads" is absolutely spot on imo when looking for a leader of the side.
 
karen7 said:
But we are the only team who have had 3 red cards already,no gloss is going to cover that up,you can't possibly say it's ok can you?
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Please point to where I said it was OK.

I said it's to be expected that aggression boils over and it's part of being an agressive team. Nolito's red was bullshit anyway and Bravo's was nothing to do with aggression.
 
domalino said:
Please point to where I said it was OK.

I said it's to be expected that aggression boils over and it's part of being an agressive team. Nolito's red was bullshit anyway and Bravo's was nothing to do with aggression.
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You said spurs are aggressive but they don't have 3 red cards,2 for aggression,it is what it is but there are no excuses
 
karen7 said:
You said spurs are aggressive but they don't have 3 red cards,2 for aggression,it is what it is but there are no excuses
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I dont disagree with you on this karen but will add that the way we are officiated and the way our tackles attract cards when compared to other sides, its something that is not always going to be under our control or fair.
 
We definitely need leaders on the pitch, we just look too halfarsed at times, though not as bad as last season. Hart was very charismatic and vocal, we miss that as well as his goalkeeping. And Kompany of course. I think we need more players who utterly refuse to accept losing and will kick arses on the pitch to stop heads going down. We still miss Tevez hugely in my opinion, he was amazing on the pitch.

Thinking about other teams though, there don't really seem to be many leaders like in the past - those in the Tony Adams, Vieira, Keane, Gerrard, Wise mould. We could do with someone of that character in central midfield really, not sure who unless there's anyone in Europe like that?

Maybe when Komps is back we'll be better. Our biggest problem though is our shit finishing. We create so many chances, if we finished just 25% more we'd smash teams and then I think the rest would take care of itself without really needing a vocal leader.

We could afford to concede and we'd usually still win by 2 or 3 so it wouldn't matter. We need leaders more when we're up against it, and if we took more of our chances we'd hardly ever be up against it. So really, bloody practice finishing City! Why do we miss so many or seem to inspire an opposing keeper into their best performances of the season!?
 
blueinsa said:
I dont disagree with you on this karen but will add that the way we are officiated and the way our tackles attract cards when compared to other sides, its something that is not always going to be under our control or fair.
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That sounds like another excuse to me,back on topic would leadership calm everyone down? guess we'll see when vinny is back
 
karen7 said:
That sounds like another excuse to me,back on topic would leadership calm everyone down? guess we'll see when vinny is back
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Hardly an excuse and much more a shared view on how we as a team are often officiated in comparison to theirs karen thats all.

Should Nolito have gone? yes, stupid but the other lad also went in with his head and nothing.

Should Kun have gone? Debatable but if he goes, then so do a dozen others every weekend but they never seem to.

Anyway thats a different debate and as i said, i agree with you in principle.
 
The Riot Club said:
We definitely need leaders on the pitch, we just look too halfarsed at times, though not as bad as last season. Hart was very charismatic and vocal, we miss that as well as his goalkeeping.
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On this, I completely disagree.

We all loved Hart's passion. Of course we did. It was obviously from all his shouting that he cared.

But that's not leading. That's cheer-leading.

Hart was no different than Rooney. Shouting "C'mon" and bollocking players does not make you a leader.

Hart was a shambles at this. He literally screamed Boateng, Savic and Mangala out of the club. All 3 are now proven to be very decent centre halves. If Hart was a leader, he'd be constantly moving them into the right positions and motivating them. Completely different approach to what he does.

But yes, from the stands we all love to see the vocals and verbals.

If you want a great example of leadership done right, look a Demichelis when Kompany went out injured(yes, that demichelis). But there was a time when he came into the side and made a huge difference by being a calming influence, experienced enough to ignore Joe's shouting and screaming and was able to calmly organise those around him. It was great leadership without being a shouter and a screamer. Of course, you have to practise what you preach and poor Martin wasn't good enough quality to be in the side by the following year, but it's another story for another day. But in his first year, he was very clearly a respected leader and had a better leadership effect than Vinny, who is great in his own game but not an organiser of men in the same way.
 
Its a mix but when you get the right leader he can be the key to getting a team to win tricky games and leading by example. Look at Kompany when he comes back I think as a whole we will start to defend better and look more solid. He will bring the best out of both Ottamendi and Stones. We need his leadership big time. Getting rid of Hart for Bravo was a huge call on Peps part Hart a natural leader good all round keeper. Wasnt any need to get rid. Look at his replacement at the moment whos distribution which he was got for has been poor at times. We missed a trick or Pep missed a trick he could of seen the year out with Hart and given him a chance.
I think long term leaders in the team will be few and far between. A lot of new faces and it will take time for them to find a voice. I think were looking at players who will offer us a lot but might miss something to grab the game by scruff when the going gets tough. Fernandhino looks likely to be a new leader but I am not 100 per cent sure he can do it all.
 
leighton said:
Its a mix but when you get the right leader he can be the key to getting a team to win tricky games and leading by example. Look at Kompany when he comes back I think as a whole we will start to defend better and look more solid. He will bring the best out of both Ottamendi and Stones. We need his leadership big time. Getting rid of Hart for Bravo was a huge call on Peps part Hart a natural leader good all round keeper. Wasnt any need to get rid. Look at his replacement at the moment whos distribution which he was got for has been poor at times. We missed a trick or Pep missed a trick he could of seen the year out with Hart and given him a chance.
I think long term leaders in the team will be few and far between. A lot of new faces and it will take time for them to find a voice. I think were looking at players who will offer us a lot but might miss something to grab the game by scruff when the going gets tough. Fernandhino looks likely to be a new leader but I am not 100 per cent sure he can do it all.
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See my previous post. Hart was anything but a natural leader. Ask yourself this; if anyone in your job shouted at you the way Joe shouts at players, how would you perform? Would it inspire you to work harder or would you say "fuck that guy"?
 
I think they are sharing the arm band with the veteran members of the squad because it's the natural thing to do at the beginning of a new tenure. The "true" captain(s) will emerge as this team grows into itself. Cream rising to the top and all of that. Patience it will happen
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
See my previous post. Hart was anything but a natural leader. Ask yourself this; if anyone in your job shouted at you the way Joe shouts at players, how would you perform? Would it inspire you to work harder or would you say "fuck that guy"?
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Joe was a leader. Yeah he shouted but he also lead by example. Some of his preformances were key to us winning titles in the past. You cant use Work and Sport in this type of way. Some people play on the edge take Saurez he be playing on a knife edge at times. Feels he has the world against him and he scores goals for fun. I have nothing wrong with players shouting at players we dont know what they are saying to each other. Some players need that type of kick up the arse for them to get back on track. Some of the goals we have concided in the champions league have been comical we can agree on that a leader in that team would be on the case of that player geeing them up to do a lot better we didnt see that yesterday or against Celtic. These players are getting well paid and its sport go onto any sporting field its natural to see people geeing up the players and team mates its what makes it sport and team spirit and a team that fights for each other. Different opions but were lacking it this season so far.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
See my previous post. Hart was anything but a natural leader. Ask yourself this; if anyone in your job shouted at you the way Joe shouts at players, how would you perform? Would it inspire you to work harder or would you say "fuck that guy"?
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why is shouting encouragement a bad thing ? dont see how its a negative really. tony adams, roy keane, john terry all shout/ed encorougment to their team mates. we dont actually know what 95% percent of the things joe shouted, perhaps he was organizing the defence or helping team mates out. if he's in the tunnel shouting 'come on guys' is that really a bad thing.
you can't really compare it to work either, if someone shouted encorugment to me it would probably spur me to perform better. for example if your in the army if someone shouts encouragement you wouldn't suddenly think fuck that guy. if the players actually did that, that shows how unprofessional they are.

joe was one of our main leaders, he led by example and was a huge part in our title wins. shouting is irrelevant. He puts in the performances, which he did.
 
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I agree with the OP. I think we are lacking in leadership and a hardness both in defence and mid field.

Whilst I love watching David Silva , Nolito and Kevin in midfield they are the same type of players not a Tony Adams, Vieira, Keane, Gerrard, Wise type that would battle and scrap their way during a game. I feel these types of players are more suited to the type of football played in the EPL and could adapt toPeps style without compromising anything if they were around today. Where do you find such players is another matter

It is going to take Pep time to get the right pieces in place, however, I must say I am very optimistic about our future.
 
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I know he's been injured but it seems to me kompany has been pretty much non existent in any club media since pep arrived.
He still is the club captain and you would have thought he'd be all over the media as the face of city while he's been injured.
Others have passed comment too I'm not sure all well between him and pep ,just a feeling ?
 
leighton said:
Joe was a leader. Yeah he shouted but he also lead by example. Some of his preformances were key to us winning titles in the past. You cant use Work and Sport in this type of way. Some people play on the edge take Saurez he be playing on a knife edge at times. Feels he has the world against him and he scores goals for fun. I have nothing wrong with players shouting at players we dont know what they are saying to each other. Some players need that type of kick up the arse for them to get back on track. Some of the goals we have concided in the champions league have been comical we can agree on that a leader in that team would be on the case of that player geeing them up to do a lot better we didnt see that yesterday or against Celtic. These players are getting well paid and its sport go onto any sporting field its natural to see people geeing up the players and team mates its what makes it sport and team spirit and a team that fights for each other. Different opions but were lacking it this season so far.
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It makes no difference whether it's sport or business or how much anyone gets paid. When it comes to leadership, it comes down to relationships and your ability to get the best out of those around you. Was Joe a great keeper? Absolutely. Was he inspiring by his performances? Sure was. But once he opened his mouth on the field it wasn't the way to lead. That approach gets old real, real fast.

I've been lucky enough to spend time with coaches who've been at levels as high as Pep and trust me, when it comes to leadership they want enthusiastic people who deliver the message, have genuine respect for those around them and have little ego. There aren't many of those. But the truly great leaders are the Paddy Vieira's, Frank Lampard's and Richard Dunne's.
 
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