Leadership?

[Ric]

This isn't particularly in response to last night (I thought we played fairly well on the whole, but were undone by individual errors), but a more general point about the team this season.

In the past we had a really strong spine, and leaders all over the field: Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Barry, Toure, Tevez etc. You could see it on Tunnel Cam, where they'd be cajoling each other before games and the opposition would look apprehensive.

The squad is arguably stronger now, but there seems to be a distinct lack of leaders in the team. The captaincy changes hands on an almost match-by-match basis, and there doesn't seem to be anyone who drags the team through when we're up against it.

Maybe the game has changed, and that sort of tub-thumping rhetoric isn't as important any more, or is it something lacking in the squad that needs to be addressed in the summer?

 

[blueinsa]

Im old fashioned in that i want to see a captain on the pitch, a real leader who the rest totally respect and i dont like seeing a different player seemingly being given the arm band on a weekly basis for no rel reason half the time.

Look, they are highly paid professionals who shouldn't need anymore motivation than wanting to go out there and prove to the world they are the very best but we have seen for a while now that when the going gets tough, too many just take the easy option and disappear and its something Pep needs to get his head round, accept is a huge part of our game in this country and address imo.

Zabba is a warrior whom we all love but his legs have gone, isnt what we need at full back anymore and he is given the armband?

 

[Blue Hefner]

I'm not really sure who wears the arm band really makes much difference

As far as leadership goes, you are correct, there doesn't appear to be a visible leader on the pitch. Perhaps, the club believe we let let our football do the talking and the more confidence we have in the system, the more confidence the players have in each other

 

[domalino]

This isn't particularly in response to last night (I thought we played fairly well on the whole, but were undone by individual errors), but a more general point about the team this season.

In the past we had a really strong spine, and leaders all over the field: Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Barry, Toure, Tevez etc. You could see it on Tunnel Cam, where they'd be cajoling each other before games and the opposition would look apprehensive.

The squad is arguably stronger now, but there seems to be a distinct lack of leaders in the team. The captaincy changes hands on an almost match-by-match basis, and there doesn't seem to be anyone who drags the team through when we're up against it.

Maybe the game has changed, and that sort of tub-thumping rhetoric isn't as important any more, or is it something lacking in the squad that needs to be addressed in the summer?

We've got a captaincy problem because the squad is divided into 2 camps - "just arrived" and "on the way out". You can see it in the age profile of the squad as well, 3 players between 23-27 - KDB, Delph and Gundogan.

I think the problem at the moment with leadership is that it's very hard to lead when you're unsure of your own game. Pep is completely overhauling the style of play and demanding completely new things from all XI players on the pitch and I think you can get into a scenario of "I'm just doing what I'm told".

In order for a leader to pick the game by the scruff of it's neck you need to be 100% confident in what you're doing. To order other players around in a backline, you need to be 100% certain that you are in the right.

It will come in time.

 

[shemnel]

i am also old fashioned in the respect that i believe a good captain makes a real difference, leads by example etc, but i've heard a few ex-players reecently, older in age than I, claim that the captaincy thing is overrated and fans notice it way more than the XI on the pitch (Lineker, Keown)

i for one think we are perhaps missing a solid leader but if you think about it, Ya Ya was captain plenty and he just plodded about

 

[Bayblue]

Pep is the leader. End of.

What he needs is a squad of players who are technically proficient, mentally strong enough and willing to (metaphorically) die for each other, no matter what happens.

 

[Franny Lee's Barrel Chest]

Spot on about Yaya. If we can get Kompany back it will make a huge difference I think. But the OP makes a good point I think. In time I think Stones will be the skipper.

 

[eversince 76]

You can't buy leadership. It develops within the squad. And leadership doesn't necessarily mean an armband saying 'captain'.

 

[Moorland Blue]

You're right Ric. I''ve worried for some time that we have a squad of intelligent, nice men - decent human beings who happen to be talented footballers but are not natural leaders or resilient characters. All the great teams have a few "characters" who will mix it with the opposition and lead when things get tough. In the Mancini team it was typified by Toure, De Jong and Tevez (characters and not afraid to mix it), aided and abetted by Hart, Kompany and Zabaleta (leaders and warriors), Barry (no nonsense) and even Balotelli (unpredictable but capable of moments of brilliance and arrogance). Looking at Barca last night (imo), they have Mascherano and Suarez (characters and not afraid to mix it) Iniesta, Pique, Rakitic (leaders and warriors), Busquets (no nonsense), and then you get to Neymar and Messi (capable of sustaining brilliance and arrogance consistently). You can see easily why were keen on Bonucci this summer, Chellini in the past etc. Lets hope Pep and co realise this and build accordingly. Football never has been just about talent. Resilience and leadership are equally important.

 

[markbmcfc]

I think, having a Captain as influential is VK is, missing for much of the season goes a long way to answering your question. We do have leadership, he just isn't playing yet.

However, I do think the idea of what a Captain brings to the team is over indulged by fans. I don't think an aggressive, in your face, drag you through the mud type personality is needed as a captain any more. If you think of personalities like Vieira and that tosser Keane, you don't see any of that these days. Certainly, if you look through the list of team captains in the Premier League, there aren't many inspiring names in terms of personality.

A level below that is this "leaders on the field" ideology. Whilst i'm sure it's a benefit to have multiple strong personalities putting all on the line, it's not something you see from many teams these days, and I personally don't think it makes one bit of difference.

I think Captains, leaders on the field often gets confused with a mutual team ethic and organisation. I don't think you need 'leaders', but I do think everyone having a mutual understanding of the team's organisation and tactical instruction is paramount to success. Everton's performance I think is a good example of that. I wouldn't say they performed so well because Phil Jagielka is so inspiring and other "leaders on the field" stepped up such as Bolasie and Cleverley (to enforce my point), but they, as a collective, completely nailed it in terms of ethos and organisation of what they needed to do to get a result.

I'm not sure we have that ethos throughout the team as yet.

 

[blueparrot]

I've always liked a strong captain, but I know it's a very British thing and continental teams tend to just give it to the oldest or most experienced player and it doesn't seem to do them much harm.
It might be just one more thing we need to get accustomed to.

 

[kaz7]

I'm more concerned with the fact we have 3 red cards already,terrible disipline

 

[Gordyola]

The way that the pros in the game especially the foreign ones is different than fans who put great stall in who the captain is Generally the most senior pro will have the armband reading Pep's books he want intelligent players who can understand what he wants to change during a game this isn't necessarily the captain

 

[bluetonium]

There are different approaches to leadership in a football team, and different thoughts on how effective it is.

Pep is clearly of the opinion that, whilst there is a clear hierarchy and respect off the pitch, on it everyone is responsible and everyone is accountable equally. Any fear factor therefore must come from the opposition knowing they are playing a team with the ability to control the game for large periods with talent throughout, who treat each game as a must win and a 'must try'. Take responsibility for your role and for your teammates too, do your job and be aware, you should;t have to be told by one guy on the pitch - I think that is Pep's idea but again it will take time to settle in and crucially for this approach, requires confidence in your teammates and the style of play, which is generated inevitably through getting results.

Having leaders on the pitch is something I have grown up with and it is a bit strange to not see it evidently - I don't see Silva or even Zaba as commanding the respect of the whole team to the level that Vinny does. I certainly can't see them shouting and geeing up teammates like Joe does in the tunnel, but thats not to say it can't work. Indeed, if we believe the reports then the very reason Joe and Yaya are out of the team is their strong personalities.

Personally I think there is an importance right now to have certain players pushing the others to keep it up, which is where I think having a Vinny or a Joe Hart in the squad right now would have been very useful. I love the geeing up in the tunnel beforehand, I love the fact that it reminds our opponents that we are ready for them, but I just don't think it is Pep's way and we won't see it addressed directly - I am sure Pep wants camaraderie and accountability, but I think he expects it equally from all players and wants faith in our own abilities to enable us to surpass the mental and tactical inadequacies that would require a traditional captain's role.

 

[shemnel]

I'm more concerned with the fact we have 3 red cards already,terrible disipline

nah, it's not terrible discipline, it's stepping up to a high press game and not executing all of your challenges very well.

if you think about it, it's a totally natural product of a team going through the motions (end of last season) to being asked to press and harry - they're just not used to it and are committing fouls

 

[kaz7]

nah, it's not terrible discipline, it's stepping up to a high press game and not executing all of your challenges very well.

if you think about it, it's a totally natural product of a team going through the motions (end of last season) to being asked to press and harry - they're just not used to it and are committing fouls

Sergio and noli red cards were for aggression,no excuses for that

 

[burning blue soul]

we are going through a transition, there is no doubt about it. i agree with the poster who mentioned the "just coming ins, and just going outs" in the squad right now.

and ive got absolutely no idea if last nights fuck up will be a fleeting occurrence or if it will be with us, on and off, until next summer.

its also hard to say how vinny's leadership will have changed over the prolonged period he has been out of the side, it will be hard to come back in and slip right into the swing of things. it will almost be like a first day at school for him again - new team playing patterns, new team mates, new responsibilities.

one thing is for sure, it will be interesting to see what happens!

 

[shemnel]

Sergio and noli red cards were for aggression,no excuses for that

hmm good point, especially the nolito one

 

[MillisleBlue]

I think, having a Captain as influential is VK is, missing for much of the season goes a long way to answering your question. We do have leadership, he just isn't playing yet.

However, I do think the idea of what a Captain brings to the team is over indulged by fans. I don't think an aggressive, in your face, drag you through the mud type personality is needed as a captain any more. If you think of personalities like Vieira and that tosser Keane, you don't see any of that these days. Certainly, if you look through the list of team captains in the Premier League, there aren't many inspiring names in terms of personality.

A level below that is this "leaders on the field" ideology. Whilst i'm sure it's a benefit to have multiple strong personalities putting all on the line, it's not something you see from many teams these days, and I personally don't think it makes one bit of difference.

I think Captains, leaders on the field often gets confused with a mutual team ethic and organisation. I don't think you need 'leaders', but I do think everyone having a mutual understanding of the team's organisation and tactical instruction is paramount to success. Everton's performance I think is a good example of that. I wouldn't say they performed so well because Phil Jagielka is so inspiring and other "leaders on the field" stepped up such as Bolasie and Cleverley (to enforce my point), but they, as a collective, completely nailed it in terms of ethos and organisation of what they needed to do to get a result.

I'm not sure we have that ethos throughout the team as yet.

+ 1

 

[domalino]

Sergio and noli red cards were for aggression,no excuses for that

hmm good point, especially the nolito one

You're asking players to be aggressive on the pitch, charging down defenders and sprinting to every loose ball.

And it's surprising that these players sometimes see that aggression boil over? Why?

Have you watched Spurs lately? The most aggressive team in the league both within the laws of the game, and outside them - Rose, Alli and Walker are constantly getting in fights.