Leadership?

Leadership didn't seem to be a problem 4 games ago. We're having a bit of a blip results wise don't think we need to panic too much it happens. Not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread but isn't the captaincy being given to the player with the most appearances in the selected team for each particular match.
 
Thaksinssoldier said:
On this, I completely disagree.

We all loved Hart's passion. Of course we did. It was obviously from all his shouting that he cared.

But that's not leading. That's cheer-leading.

Hart was no different than Rooney. Shouting "C'mon" and bollocking players does not make you a leader.

Hart was a shambles at this. He literally screamed Boateng, Savic and Mangala out of the club. All 3 are now proven to be very decent centre halves. If Hart was a leader, he'd be constantly moving them into the right positions and motivating them. Completely different approach to what he does.

But yes, from the stands we all love to see the vocals and verbals.

If you want a great example of leadership done right, look a Demichelis when Kompany went out injured(yes, that demichelis). But there was a time when he came into the side and made a huge difference by being a calming influence, experienced enough to ignore Joe's shouting and screaming and was able to calmly organise those around him. It was great leadership without being a shouter and a screamer. Of course, you have to practise what you preach and poor Martin wasn't good enough quality to be in the side by the following year, but it's another story for another day. But in his first year, he was very clearly a respected leader and had a better leadership effect than Vinny, who is great in his own game but not an organiser of men in the same way.
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really enjoyed this - and agree that being shouty and genuine leadership are not necessarily the same thing.
 
karen7 said:
Nonsense,he led the defence to be the best in the prem for 3 yrs until mp dismantled it.,did they hate playing with him then? goalkeepers are supposed to marshall those in front of them,emotion during a game is not a bad thing,if he doesn't get protection from the defenders he has to shout.he can't say i'll put the kettle on and we can have a chat during the game
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not sure I agree that Hart was the leader of the defence but each to their own - maybe what you write about
emotion touches on the idea that there are different kinds on leadership...

1) leading by trying to control emotion.
2) leading by reacting to emotion.
3) having the presence and composure to lead through emotional times.

I guess different people have different preferences for what kind of leadership they would want?
 
Leadership, at least as discernible by the fan is overrated and outdated.

What is more important is an inate confidence and arrogance that you are at all times superior. This quality is embodied by the following:

Otamendi, Stones, Kompany when healthy, Kolarov, Gundogan, Aguero and Sterling all have it.

Fighting spirit: Zaba, Ota, Sterling, Nolito, and Dihno have it.

Leadership in football is an ascription by outsiders. It's in fact a fallacy. The fewer that believe in it on a squad the better the squad.
 
Dax777 said:
Leadership, at least as discernible by the fan is overrated and outdated.

What is more important is an inate confidence and arrogance that you are at all times superior. This quality is embodied by the following:

Otamendi, Stones, Kompany when healthy, Kolarov, Gundogan, Aguero and Sterling all have it.

Fighting spirit: Zaba, Ota, Sterling, Nolito, and Dihno have it.

Leadership in football is an ascription by outsiders. It's in fact a fallacy. The fewer that believe in it on a squad the better the squad.
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interesting Dax...you speak of innate confidence and arrogance. How about about leadership being about helping to draw out the inner strength of teammates? Iso, this is also a quality that I would associate with genuine humility more so than arrogance - indeed it might even be said that it is arrogance that gets in the way of true inner strength?
 
Ric said:
This isn't particularly in response to last night (I thought we played fairly well on the whole, but were undone by individual errors), but a more general point about the team this season.

In the past we had a really strong spine, and leaders all over the field: Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta, Barry, Toure, Tevez etc. You could see it on Tunnel Cam, where they'd be cajoling each other before games and the opposition would look apprehensive.

The squad is arguably stronger now, but there seems to be a distinct lack of leaders in the team. The captaincy changes hands on an almost match-by-match basis, and there doesn't seem to be anyone who drags the team through when we're up against it.

Maybe the game has changed, and that sort of tub-thumping rhetoric isn't as important any more, or is it something lacking in the squad that needs to be addressed in the summer?
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Oh for the days of Roy Paul!
 
Stones and De Bruyne will both develop into great leaders I reckon. Agreed that we're lacking in that department now having lost Hart and Touré, and Kompany barely playing and Zabaleta running out of time. Fernandinho and Silva aren't quite vocal enough. If Kolarov was a bit more consistent I'd be more than happy to make him our captain for this season. I wouldn't know the ins and outs of how much difference it actually makes but personally I think a club should have one captain who will hopefully be there to help with things like bridging the gap between managers. They need to be someone the fans want representing their club and injecting identity.

In a few years time John Stones will wear the armband- and we'll all be proud to have him wear it, which is the most important thing.
 
In a way we are sort of like how Arsenal evolved. There is no voice on the pitch anymore, there is no presence
 
Benarbia said:
In a way we are sort of like how Arsenal evolved. There is no voice on the pitch anymore, there is no presence
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The manager has publicly stated he will leave it to the players to pick the captain....right or wrong its planned not evolved !!
This thread should be closed and comments transferred to a Pep related thread.
 
Pep is in charge. 100%.

If it ever appears otherwise, there will be a change in squad followed by a transfer.

And this is as it should be.

Our Captain on the field... not really important.

If anyone is capable of relaying Pep's instructions real-time to everyone else on the pitch... that is extremely important.

I'm not sure that Pep has identified his relayer yet.
 
Can't remember any alpha males in Pep's Barca and Bayern Munich, more leaders in that sense that they did a great job on the pitch. Xavi and Lahm spring to mind.
 
Hi @Ric. Here is maybe a different way of looking at your question, which relates with leadership and change. Roughly, it may be said that there are two basic paths of change. One tries to change the outer first to change the Inner, the other changes the inner to change the outer. Not so much that one is 'right,' the other 'wrong' - just different.
One example of this might a players approach to stretching in warm ups. In the first case, a player might stretch to the point of tension, then push even further to make the body more flexible and so, relaxed and prepared. The second would be more about finding the point of tension but then, rather than pushing further, letting the inner tension dissolve - which allows the mind to be calmer and the body to relax and open in a fluid way. I appreciate if what I write does not come across too clearly but each way may have a different mentality and so a different kind of leadership becomes apparent. In the first way it would be about pushing one self and teammates - where 'tub-thumping' rhetoric may be useful. The second way would be more about helping to dissolve the inner tension, that the team comes together in a relaxed yet focussed way.
 
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