"Lee Mason. Oh Dear"

cleavers said:
sir peace frog said:
the reason it is shit in my opoinion is its stats picked for a purpose,im sure if ive got the time i could gather a bunch of "stats" to prove the opposite
If you can find the stats to prove that Mason is great, and we have won ever game under his authority this season, you will be doing a pretty fine job. I think you may struggle though ;o)

Chris, I hope you don't take any of my critical comments too seriously, its been a good debate in my opinion, and the facts you posted cannot be argued with, at least until after Sunday anyway.

I don't think he has been an influence on our poor performances other than simply being shite himself, hopefully Sunday will show just that.

Not at all, mate, the fact is I see a possible link, and you are not convinced of it. I completely respect the view of anybody who constructs a sensible argument whether they happen to agree with me or not. Many blues see the link more clearly than I do, others are more dubious and think that in those three games we would have been just as shit whoever reffed us. Nobdody is right or wrong, they are all just opinions and this is an internet forum for exchanging opinions.

Besides, I really hope you're right. I hope that we fuck wolves good and proper on Sunday, that Mason refs it properly and sensibly and we give the rags the fright of their lives. I don't actually want our ref's to be biased, I just worry about some of the evidence which suggests that one or two of them are.
 
Pigeonho said:
Blue Mooner said:
I would suggest that it is impossible to play well in every game, therefore, there are always going to be occasions where other factors come into play.

Of course, if we are playing well, the amount to which the referee can influence proceedings becomes less.,

This is where the scheduling of referees becomes important, through analysis, it would be easy to identify the games where we historically struggle and to appoint to those games referees who we would see as typically biased against us like Mason et al

The referee has a number of tools in his armoury that can impact the teams performance and the flow of a game, one is yellow cards to put players under the threat of a sending off, soft fouls that interrupt the flow of the game but also provides opportunities for goals from set plays and then the more impactful decisions of sendings off, penalties not being given, penalties being awarded, offides being given or not given that very often can directly impact the outcome of the game.

Take these games wherecwe have dropped points or gone out of domestic cups;

Liverpool away Pepe Reina hand ball outside the box, Balo sent off
Chelsea away - non given penalty on silva, man sent off and dubious penalty awarded - result, loss and in that game we actually started like a house on fire
West Brom away - very fussy refereeing and a goal disallowed
Sunderland away - offside goal given
United FA cup - kompany sent off
Liverpool CC Semi - penalty lost one nil
Liverpool away CC semi dodgy handball penalty - ultimately sent us out
Everton away 3 penalties waved away, assault on richards by drenthe unpunished
Swansea away, penalty to swansea awarded, our 'goal' ruled out for very marginal offside
Stoke away assault on Silva unpunished - admittedly didnt directly result in lost points but indicated the mindset of the referee

The obvious thing here is that in the 12 games in league and cup where we have not won there have been major refereeing decisions that have gone against us in 10 of those games. I have not included fulham away but even in that game there was a foul on dzeko in the run up to their goal.

I can only conclude that these matches indicate a propensity of the referee to have awarded decisions against us and the outcome has been dropped points or out of cup competitions. I can only conclude that the 'way' a referee handles a match can clearly have a tremendous impact on the outcome of the match.

Norwich for me was an another example but we played too well for it to have an impact although at 2.1 i bet most blues were concerned that norwich would come back into it in which case the two penalty claims not awarded could have had a massive impact. The fact is this is not an exact science, but throw enough mud at the wall and some of it will stick.

Even with blue tinted specs on the litany of bad decisions against us and consequently poor results tells me that the way in which a game is refereed can have a detrimental impact on the performance and the result. The big difference to me is that when the rags play poorly, quite frequently, they often get the helping hand of the ref, and we quite clearly don't. Something is not right and those who care about the game should continue to expose it and not bury their heads in the sand.
Good post, 2 questions though:

1. What would the refs have to gain by doing that to us, and for United?
2. If I take my head out of the sand and post pro-agenda comments, how will that help anything other than add my name to the list of people who think there is an agenda? Will someone from FIFA randomly come across the thread, read our comments and launch an investigation? Me and Didsbury Dave have said to the pro-agenda lot before to go to the papers or even FIFA themselves with the 'evidence' they have, because they could expose something huge.

No-one's done it yet.

With regard your first point, you don't have to have an agenda in order to referee inconsistently. Mason is something of an exceptional case in that he's fairly well documented as coming from a whole family of rags, but generally speaking I would not suggest that referees set out with the express intention of stiffing City and aiding United. However, nor would I suggest that it doesn't turn out that way regardless.
Ferguson is the Lord High Priest of manipulated paranoia and has a PhD in pressurising officials into favouring his team. For a decade it was via the none too subtle method of plain old intimidation, but since they finally overstepped the mark with the hounding of Andy D'Urso (and the media focus that came with it), it's been courtesy of less obtrusive methods. It's Giggs, Rooney and Camelgob constantly chirping in the referee's ear over EVERY decision, it's Taggart waiting in the tunnel at half time (something Mark Halsey has personally told me happens) to inform the officials of all the mistakes they've made against the rags in the 1st half, it's the press conferences like today's where he turns up with misleading facts and figures to support United's cause and which go unchallenged as a result, it's the spin they put on their own misdeeds to promote the idea of United as good guys or victims (witness the master stroke of having "representative" rag supporters condemn Ashley Young today - safe in the knowledge that the damage has already been done, and that their mock outrage at the betrayal of the ideals of Busby is just so much calculated hot air), it's his tame lackeys at Sky and Talkshite, whose bread and butter is the legion of armchair rags from Texas to Timbuktu, and who can be relied on to hold phone-ins or run countless replays when Adam Johnson falls down but not when Rooney & Co do it, and it's the FA who routinely remove referees who have upset Ferguson from the "firing line", with the effect that when they do eventually return to the Swamp they will be under immense pressure not to give any decision that might cause them to suffer a repetition of their exile. Remember Alan Wilkie? Got barrel loads of stick for sending Cantona off at Crystal Palace, didn't get given another United game for over a year and then "made amends" on his return by giving that ridiculous penalty against Frontzeck in the FA Cup game at Old Nafford. Or even this year, Mike Jones, who awarded a duff penalty to Newcastle at the Swamp, got dropped for 3 weeks for his troubles and then next time out awarded United 2 penalties against Stoke.
But let me ask you a question. If refereeing decisions truly even themselves out, why does Taggart bother with his regular tirades? Why would he risk the innumerable fines and touchline bans that come his way, if he didn't think there was some benefit to United? There may not be an agenda, but the fact that United have been awarded 12 penalties to City's 9 this season and had just 1 of their own men sent off but 7 of the opposition, whilst City by contrast have had 7 men sent off and just 1 opponent, tells me that referees feel under immense pressure not to give adverse decisions against United. And therein lies the problem
 
How many of us if we reffed a game would love to send off a rag or give a penalty against them? I know if I ever qualified as a ref I would tell the powers that be that my team was some obscure southern based one that I give a shit about. I would hide my love of City and my hatred of all things red (and Leeds). It seems obvious to me that some refs have the same love and hatred for certain football teams that we all have and ref games accordingly.
 
I don't see what point the writer is trying to make by saying we haven't scored with Mason in charge. How can he award us a goal if we don't put the ball in the net? Granted, Chelsea got a goal recently without putting the ball in the net, but you get my point.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Pigeonho said:
Blue Mooner said:
Mason is something of an exceptional case in that he's fairly well documented as coming from a whole family of rags,

How do we know this? And if it's true, why is he allowed to officiate ANY of our games, or ANY scum game for that matter?
 
Pam said:

How do we know this? And if it's true, why is he allowed to officiate ANY of our games, or ANY scum game for that matter?

Because he pledges official allegiance to Bolton. However, a number of Blues on here, whom I have no reason to doubt, know the family and have stated they are all reds
 
Write to the FA with your suspicions of Mason, see if you get anything than the prepared generic response.
 

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