Leroy Sane - 2017/18 performances

[ADegenerate]

It's a shame that a few can't see that this perceived arrogance is exactly why he'll go right to the top... he has a sense of ronaldo about him, so what?? Are people really that arsed when you consider what someone like tranny has achieved in the game..

His decision making is fine, it's fundamental to his development that he continues to do the same, keep making the mistakes Leroy.... he's also already better than that rag at the same age!

Watched the game for the third time...there’s so many team moments that stood out (small stuff where multiple players busted it to thwart an attack that you could miss initially) but my favorite moments were ederson telling the crowd to fuck off when they bitched about handball (77:39 ish) and Leroy disappointed with himself when he was taken off. I’d call it proper arrogance tbh. You can feel it as a player. Peps installing it and it’s there.

@Andrew___K told you it was safe to get excited. Been around a lot of talented teams and this team has that gumption.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Probably whilst he was running.

Lol

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

It's a shame that a few can't see that this perceived arrogance is exactly why he'll go right to the top... he has a sense of ronaldo about him, so what?? Are people really that arsed when you consider what someone like Ronaldo has achieved in the game..

His decision making is fine, it's fundamental to his development that he continues to do the same, keep making the mistakes Leroy.... he's also already better than that rag at the same age!

Entirely agree; he's fantastically talented and exciting to watch

 

[Andrew___K]

Watched the game for the third time...there’s so many team moments that stood out (small stuff where multiple players busted it to thwart an attack that you could miss initially) but my favorite moments were ederson telling the crowd to fuck off when they bitched about handball (77:39 ish) and Leroy disappointed with himself when he was taken off. I’d call it proper arrogance tbh. You can feel it as a player. Peps installing it and it’s there.

@Andrew___K told you it was safe to get excited. Been around a lot of talented teams and this team has that gumption.

Offtop:
The difference between me and you is that you're spotting things in which we've improved recently. And usually doing it right. I, on the other hand, try to find what we're still lacking to be the best. I know it can be annoying sometimes, but that's just my nature - take a good thing to find its deficiencies and ways to improve it. Don't think that these 2 approaches contradict each other in any way, though the first one looks like an optimist's POV, second as overly pessimistic ;)

The improvement in overall build-up/pressing play is evident and very promising, thanks to a year of education having cumulative effect. Hope it shuts up those who think that Guardiola is here to 'adapt to get the best out of current squad' instead of drilling them in a certain style (been reading this point on BM a lot).
But the room for improvement is still very, very huge. Mark my words and check your impression this time next year. You'll treat the current team performance as just one of stages of improvement, have no doubt about it.

Back to Sane/attackers. We talked about chance conversion issues before the season started, remember? This problem is still there, I think, and is going to bite us sooner or later. It's easy to applaud when the team has a good run, but I think the content of the game is more important than immediate results. Would you be so excited if the game with Chelsea finished 0-0? Our attacking players miss too much opportunities.

We desperately need a clinical finisher. With someone like Mbappe/Griezmann this team would be truly devastating and even better both in defence and attack. Getting Sanchez in January should be a priority on par with a new LB as I see it. Can't see the team getting on European top with a limited striker like Aguero - explained it numerous times.

I'm not overly critical - just think that we should measure the progress by the final goal, which is building the best team in Europe. Comparing this team with the last year one, Pellegrini's or Mancini's like you usually do is simply unfair ;) I think with the right transfer backing we'll witness next level of performance around this time next year or a bit later. We're still work-in-progress.

As for Sane, I was one of the first here who'd named him as the most talented player in the squad even before he started playing regularly. I think we have a Robben/Bale level talent here. But IMO he's still very inconsistent and tactically inept, you don't reach CL finals with youngsters, he needs more time. Guess Sane is the type of player that starts to fully blossom around 24-25 yo. And more competitive surroundings would only help him to become better.

So, my point is that we still need more firepower to reach immediate results in Europe (starting to think that the current squad bar LB could be enough to win PL, your optimism is contagious).

 

[ADegenerate]

Offtop:
The difference between me and you is that you're spotting things in which we've improved recently. And usually doing it right. I, on the other hand, try to find what we're still lacking to be the best. I know it can be annoying sometimes, but that's just my nature - take a good thing to find its deficiencies and ways to improve it. Don't think that these 2 approaches contradict each other in any way, though the first one looks like an optimist's POV, second as overly pessimistic ;)

The improvement in overall build-up/pressing play is evident and very promising, thanks to a year of education having cumulative effect. Hope it shuts up those who think that Guardiola is here to 'adapt to get the best out of current squad' instead of drilling them in a certain style (been reading this point on BM a lot).
But the room for improvement is still very, very huge. Mark my words and check your impression this time next year. You'll treat the current team performance as just one of stages of improvement, have no doubt about it.

Back to Sane/attackers. We talked about chance conversion issues before the season started, remember? This problem is still there, I think, and is going to bite us sooner or later. It's easy to applaud when the team has a good run, but I think the content of the game is more important than immediate results. Would you be so excited if the game with Chelsea finished 0-0? Our attacking players miss too much opportunities.

We desperately need a clinical finisher. With someone like Mbappe/Griezmann this team would be truly devastating and even better both in defence and attack. Getting Sanchez in January should be a priority on par with a new LB as I see it. Can't see the team getting on European top with a limited striker like Aguero - explained it numerous times.

I'm not overly critical - just think that we should measure the progress by the final goal, which is building the best team in Europe. Comparing this team with the last year one, Pellegrini's or Mancini's like you usually do is simply unfair ;) I think with the right transfer backing we'll witness next level of performance around this time next year or a bit later. We're still work-in-progress.

As for Sane, I was one of the first here who'd named him as the most talented player in the squad even before he started playing regularly. I think we have a Robben/Bale level talent here. But IMO he's still very inconsistent and tactically inept, you don't reach CL finals with youngsters, he needs more time. Guess Sane is the type of player that starts to fully blossom around 24-25 yo. And more competitive surroundings would only help him to become better.

So, my point is that we still need more firepower to reach immediate results in Europe (starting to think that the current squad bar LB could be enough to win PL, your optimism is contagious).

TL;dr is at the bottom.

I’m one of the least knowledgeable people in regards to the finer details of the game on this website so I’m not able to spot the types of deficiencies that you’re able to. I’m a total novice and I couldn’t be happier about that. Didn’t even know the rules until I was 25 (2010/2011). It’s really nice for me to be able to enjoy a sport from an amateur perspective. When you play sports year round from 5-17 it really takes the joy out of it in a way. The joy and curiosity to learn kind of fades away. It’s nice to have a sport that I’m passionate about again.


I do have a background in analytics, played sports at high level and I also had a solid 8 year run in high stakes professional poker so the mindset as far as what to look for in teams / players is there for me. The point I’m making here is that my optimism wasn’t whimsical, it was clear and calculated. I don’t get hyped up and overconfident but when I do I trust it completely (had the same feeling with Jesus btw, 100% confidence which a bold proclamation for me).

Yes, I absolutely would be as excited if the score was 0-0. I’ve been buzzing about the season because I knew something special was coming. Totally confident of it. I promise you that I’m not the optimist you think I am and I’m extremely level headed and a bit cynical actually. I’m just very realistic when it comes to expectation. Play a million hands of poker and you’ll learn all about proper expectation! There’s a post I made to @Zin 'messiah' Zimmer 6 games prior where I said I’d need with 13/15 points and at least a tie V Chelsea to remain as confident as I was. We ended up being even better than I anticipated after that! This buzz does not expand to CL btw. I’ve had an idea of how this process was going to work out and for me 4th/8th (Coin flip game) is accurate for the progression. Probably a toss up tbh. I’ve never claimed we were world beaters, just that we’d win the league easily and that we were on track and following the process to get to the top. I think going with young phenoms and taking a slower route to the top is better than stacking up the players like Sanchez, Ozil, Mahrez, etc.


Yes, I definitely remember that conversation about chance conversion. You really need that killer finisher to get into the first tier with real/Barca I think. Man...Mbappe would have been perfect for what we’re building. Having said all of that I’m much more relaxed on that now. I would have taken Sanchez but I’m looking for a full on youth movement (my vision might take a bit longer than yours). Some of the reasons why I’m not AS bothered. 1) Natural goal scoring progression with Raz+Sane with age. 2) KDB won’t be as unlucky with the woodwork. 3) The squad knows the system better so things will be faster, easier, and more comfortable. 4) The full team press has been better than I anticipated. Less defense/more offense. Rattled opponents are fresh meat :) 5) Overlapping fullbacks means our wide players are more central and less predictable than last year. What’s that have to do with conversion rate? Well, the chances should comes ‘easier + in better situations’ which will improve the rate. The confidence with dominating will raise the rates as well.


Having said all that I agree with you in that we will be dropping points here and there because of poor finishing but I’m not worried about it costing us the league.


I’m super fucking pissed about Mendy because it forces us to dip into the transfer window in January. I have this idea stuck in my head that January signings are forced and far more likely to be third or fourth choice in the bigger picture.

I don’t think you’re overly critical at all. In fact I’m sure I’d share similar views if I knew as much as you did. You’re wrong about comparing last years team to this years team. Big data is the future. Baseball people figured that out years ago, basketball is doing it also. It’ll start being implemented more and more in football too. The point I’m making here is that they’ve learned how to quantity Wins Above Replacement in baseball which tells you how good a player is. Replacing the 14th player in the league with the ...say 3rd player directly transitions to a massive improvement. Works in other sports, why not here? I did some of my own comparisons and one of the reasons that I was so confident is because we made ridiculous gains in replacement. We went from massive liability to near the top in key positions! There's small margins between the top teams when you do what we did it's almost impossible for it not to transition.

Trust in your boy here. He knows what he’s talking about. I've got a hundred other reasons why I was so confident but this post is long enough. I'm also a little buzzed up after the matches so that optimism comes out a little bit more after the games btw. It's nice being right :P


Tl;dr. Idiotic Ramblings about my background and why I was so confident about this season. Nonsense really with nothing to do with Leroy. :)

 

[Dax777]

TL;dr is at the bottom.

I’m one of the least knowledgeable people in regards to the finer details of the game on this website so I’m not able to spot the types of deficiencies that you’re able to. I’m a total novice and I couldn’t be happier about that. Didn’t even know the rules until I was 25 (2010/2011). It’s really nice for me to be able to enjoy a sport from an amateur perspective. When you play sports year round from 5-17 it really takes the joy out of it in a way. The joy and curiosity to learn kind of fades away. It’s nice to have a sport that I’m passionate about again.


I do have a background in analytics, played sports at high level and I also had a solid 8 year run in high stakes professional poker so the mindset as far as what to look for in teams / players is there for me. The point I’m making here is that my optimism wasn’t whimsical, it was clear and calculated. I don’t get hyped up and overconfident but when I do I trust it completely (had the same feeling with Jesus btw, 100% confidence which a bold proclamation for me).

Yes, I absolutely would be as excited if the score was 0-0. I’ve been buzzing about the season because I knew something special was coming. Totally confident of it. I promise you that I’m not the optimist you think I am and I’m extremely level headed and a bit cynical actually. I’m just very realistic when it comes to expectation. Play a million hands of poker and you’ll learn all about proper expectation! There’s a post I made to @Zin 'messiah' Zimmer 6 games prior where I said I’d need with 13/15 points and at least a tie V Chelsea to remain as confident as I was. We ended up being even better than I anticipated after that! This buzz does not expand to CL btw. I’ve had an idea of how this process was going to work out and for me 4th/8th (Coin flip game) is accurate for the progression. Probably a toss up tbh. I’ve never claimed we were world beaters, just that we’d win the league easily and that we were on track and following the process to get to the top. I think going with young phenoms and taking a slower route to the top is better than stacking up the players like Sanchez, Ozil, Mahrez, etc.


Yes, I definitely remember that conversation about chance conversion. You really need that killer finisher to get into the first tier with real/Barca I think. Man...Mbappe would have been perfect for what we’re building. Having said all of that I’m much more relaxed on that now. I would have taken Sanchez but I’m looking for a full on youth movement (my vision might take a bit longer than yours). Some of the reasons why I’m not AS bothered. 1) Natural goal scoring progression with Raz+Sane with age. 2) KDB won’t be as unlucky with the woodwork. 3) The squad knows the system better so things will be faster, easier, and more comfortable. 4) The full team press has been better than I anticipated. Less defense/more offense. Rattled opponents are fresh meat :) 5) Overlapping fullbacks means our wide players are more central and less predictable than last year. What’s that have to do with conversion rate? Well, the chances should comes ‘easier + in better situations’ which will improve the rate. The confidence with dominating will raise the rates as well.


Having said all that I agree with you in that we will be dropping points here and there because of poor finishing but I’m not worried about it costing us the league.


I’m super fucking pissed about Mendy because it forces us to dip into the transfer window in January. I have this idea stuck in my head that January signings are forced and far more likely to be third or fourth choice in the bigger picture.

I don’t think you’re overly critical at all. In fact I’m sure I’d share similar views if I knew as much as you did. You’re wrong about comparing last years team to this years team. Big data is the future. Baseball people figured that out years ago, basketball is doing it also. It’ll start being implemented more and more in football too. The point I’m making here is that they’ve learned how to quantity Wins Above Replacement in baseball which tells you how good a player is. Replacing the 14th player in the league with the ...say 3rd player directly transitions to a massive improvement. Works in other sports, why not here? I did some of my own comparisons and one of the reasons that I was so confident is because we made ridiculous gains in replacement. We went from massive liability to near the top in key positions! There's small margins between the top teams when you do what we did it's almost impossible for it not to transition.

Trust in your boy here. He knows what he’s talking about. I've got a hundred other reasons why I was so confident but this post is long enough. I'm also a little buzzed up after the matches so that optimism comes out a little bit more after the games btw. It's nice being right :P


Tl;dr. Idiotic Ramblings about my background and why I was so confident about this season. Nonsense really with nothing to do with Leroy. :)

You grossly underestimate your knowledge of the game. Its better than most.

 

[ADegenerate]

You grossly underestimate your knowledge of the game. Its better than most.

You sure know how to make a guy blush you know. I grew up with the same core of friends since kindergarten and we're all athletes and big sports fan but none of us knew the first think about hockey or soccer. We all jumped in feet first at the same time and because of what I've learned from you all here on BM I can hardly carry a serious conversation with these dopes!

 

[FlemishDuck]

Very much liking his presence in the team aswell. He has an interresting set of attributes especially the physicals, besides that he looks like a hard worker and determined player, and he's slotting quite well into the team. Enjoyable player to watch, and likely has a lot of development potential still.

We desperately need a clinical finisher. With someone like Mbappe/Griezmann this team would be truly devastating and even better both in defence and attack. Getting Sanchez in January should be a priority on par with a new LB as I see it. Can't see the team getting on European top with a limited striker like Aguero - explained it numerous times.

Interresting position. I remember having played a lot of matches in FM against city and aguerro and i remember being especially scared about Agguero as in the game atleast he was pretty much impossible to defend too. At the time i considered him something of a "teleporting monster" as defenders would just constantly fail to keep up with his movement. Afcourse, thats just a game.

admittingly, i wasn't in the least interrested in football something like 5 years ago. Ive played a lot of strategy games though, and at some point i fell in love with football strategy if only for the reason that it's about the most complex and abstract strategic game in existance. There are just so many approaches to football, and there is a constant evolution with new approaches and "inventions". And from there on i started to get interrested in football, with a heavy preference for the strategy behind it.

Ive learned a number of maxims from that. There is specialization VS all round quality, and this can apply to a player or even a team as a whole. Some team specializations can say be in passing, speed, strenght, height, stamina, teamwork, overal technical abbilety's etc...
And another maxim might say "try to bring forward as many weapons as possible", in that idea you would always need some fast men, some great passers, some aerially strong guys, some guy who is a specialist at banging free kicks in, heck even a player with an exceptional long throw can be an unique weapon, and the idea is that the more options there are for scoring the easier it will get statisticly.

So then as to Aguerro. As many players, Aguerro is more specialised than all round. To be more all round some extra strenght and aerial abbilety wouldn't be too bad. But he's extremely maneuverable, quick and agile, and you'd wonder if he would be so agile had he been bigger and heavier. There are a lot of very succesfull nimble maneuverable light players out there, for Belgium we have Mertens and Hazard that correspond more to that profile, and in the case of Mertens he is a striker that is very simmilar to Aguerro and is currently racking up the goals in the Italian league. Hence it can certaintly pay of to have a striker of that profile at front, provided that you also serve him with his quality's and lacks in mind, tyically you'd order youre players to serve him more with passes over the ground. Furthermore a typical tactic when having such a nimble single striker would be to have a heavier midfielder with good aerial abbilety go forward when it looks like a goal could be scored by the header, and it's typical football wisdom that you should have a few more than just one man in the box by the time you make say a cross from the sides. Now this is where it becomes relevant with Sane, for he seems to have some physical property's and aerial abbilety that could be usefull for us in that respect, and plays in a position and role where he could be in the box when required for the header.

Not going to say i'm such a football tactics specialist, i'm still learning and that likely won't ever stop, just my 5 cents.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

How did Sané play for Germany? I watched the highlights and his finishing was awful. Missed some clear chances, not even getting near the target! :(

Was his general play better?

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Watch that clip carefully, and study the work off the ball for his assist. He's just weaving around, making himself available, and it is literally impossible for a defender to track such a player. That's what I love about him, and why he will be a star in this team. Not everything he tries comes off, far from it at present, but he's an absolute pest for the opposing defence. Worth having in a team for his distraction factor alone.