Liverpool - post match thread.

[burning blue soul]

It's the same as the chalk and cheese halves we get. First half - lacklustre, tentative, defensively frail; second half - attacking like a pack of hyenas, pressure off the defence, and the midfield clicking like a well-oiled machine.

Because teams drop off when they are leading and invite us on to hit us on the break.
It's amazing how many people describe the general theme of our "tales of 2 halves" without actually joining up the dots!!!

 

[Damanino]

Our players not being played to their strengths. Chelsea players are and they look better and stronger then what they really are. Put Cahill instead of Stones and he would struggle. Put Costa for Kun ask him to do what we ask from Kun and he would struggle. We are very much like Spain were in world cup 2014. Tiki-taka only works with very good high pressing version and lots of pace. Without these its easy to defend against and not very hard to punish defensively.

Navas, Sterling, Kun , KDB they would be perfect for a counter attack team. They all like big places ahead of themsleves instead of it they have to play in a system that makes them face 2 opponents every times in very tight places sometimes without time to even turn and look.

Chelsea sometimes happily lets other teams have a bit of possession in return when they win it back they have actually time and place to make quick attacks. If we find Sterling, Kolarov, Navas with some free place on the wings and they can cross usually no one in the box maybe Kun and 3 defenders but thats it. Silva, KDB very far from action in these situations.

We dont do quick attacks lots of counter chances we have is when Kun or Sterling gets the ball at half way line. And obviously 2-3 opponents still on their own half still. Usually our player runs a bit and turn back waits for others to join and this 10-20-30 seconds more than enough to turn it into the usualy parked bus situation and we often play the bacpass so Otamendi, Stones start the attack and the sideways tiki-taka begins again.

Even Pool were happy to give us the possession in our half they did not press our defenders much until someone with the ball went over the halfway line.

Majority of our possession comes from the area between our box and the halfway line, we passed the ball a lot in that area without being pressed much, meaningless passes without any danger to create something. While we are passing there quite far from opponent box they have time to organize themselves, pick up any runner, mark more dangeorus players tightly upfront.

 

[Adlab123]

If he is going to insist on passing about at the back he's going to need the best transfer window ever for us to make top 4 this year
That or he needs players there who can control the ball see a pass and won't flap under a bit of pressure, so if just go
.............Bravo:(...........
.fernandhino...Toure..Stones..Clichy..
Sterling.......Fernando.....Nolito....
...........KDB..........Silva........
.................Aguero............

Not ideal but can't be worse than what we are doing back there now

Something in that line up. Not sure about Toure there though

 

[117 M34]

Agreed.
So who should correct this and how.?

Did pep try and sleep with your wife? Why all the sly digs and questions about what he should and shouldn't do?

 

[bugsyblue]

W


We're giving him a chance,I'd just wish he'd use more common sense,play to win the game,ugly occasionally,and stop forcing a confusing philosophy on current players who lack the ability or willingness to adapt.

A pig with lipstick is still just a pig and if you try and teach a pig to sing,you'll upset the pig and frustrate the teacher !!

While true I don't think Pep will change his system. He will simply sends those pigs to the abbatooir - to keep the analogy going! There will be changes come the summer I'm sure of it.

 

[kevodevo]

No, it was in the main just stating the facts from the game, on every measure we were better than Liverpool, unfortunately we didn't make that superiority count with goals.

The facts don't lie and actually we have dominated quite a few matches and still lost or drawn and this is the conundrum with football - you can be the best team but don't necessarily win a game - you only need a dodgy call , poor ref decision and a game is ruined - this happens a lot more that we think.
That said ,chances have to be taken when they arrive and that certainly is a failing for us this year.
We have squandered so many chances in key games they have have to sort that.
Still think we will make a good show in the champs league- and if we take those chances we could put some pressure on the dippers and chavs still.

 

[jonmcity]

If he is going to insist on passing about at the back he's going to need the best transfer window ever for us to make top 4 this year
That or he needs players there who can control the ball see a pass and won't flap under a bit of pressure, so if just go
.............Bravo:(............fernandhino...Toure..Stones..Clichy..
Sterling.......Fernando.....Nolito....
...........KDB..........Silva........
.................Aguero............

Not ideal but can't be worse than what we are doing back there now

Its amazing that we are in this position, however i think Fernando needs to be playing in every game until we can get a proper partner for Stones.

.............Bravo:(...........
.fernandhino...Toure..Stones..Clichy..

 

[Corky]

End of season party on 7th Jan (bar the runners up cup we all mocked).

 

[Adlab123]

Did pep try and sleep with your wife? Why all the sly digs and questions about what he should and shouldn't do?

Not sly digs mate. I am not that impressed so far. I want to win every game but I am entitled to ask questions about keeper, style and selection.
By the way she thinks Mancini was better looking, so she sticking with me,

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

We played alright. This forum is toxic when we lose. All the same moaners don't post when we win. Unlucky loss against a good Liverpool team

 

[simon23]

I think you make some very valid points. However would you rather Pep makes mistakes in his first season and we reap the benefits of the lessons learned, both through him and the players, next year? Or that he keeps chopping and changing so we scrape points, which has equal risk if you ask me. Pep isn't going to abandon his system, that's not why he was brought in and what's the point of bringing Pep Guardiola in if we want him to play counter attack against Liverpool? We may as well have signed Ranieri.

Great post so Im going to answer it in parts......

I would rather Pep show us why he is regarded as the best and most tactical coach in the world by adapting to what eh has and to teams he is playing against....I don't think this would be a risk and I don't think it would lead to us scraping points....Play to the best of our abilities (or more to what players and their abilities and I think we would win more games.....or at least not lose as many - the result was pretty predictable as was the performance in the first half.

Everyone is raving about Klopp and Liverpool but forgetting they finished 8th in his first season in the prem! Equally people asking why he keeps changing the personnel whereas Chelsea and Liverpool don't? Well maybe because they will play at least 10 less games than us this season? Maybe because their average age is younger?

Yup I agree.....he needs time and Im prepared to give him as many years as he needs as i have said countless times....I love the guy and regardless of results want him here for life...probably not going to happen but you get my point. People used integrity as a validating point for Pellers (which was true and one o his very very positives -but Pep has this in spades and more and his representation of the club so far has been impeccable)......but my one point as i said last season and my mind won't be changed not his is that the league is always more important at present than winning the champs league......and the age of our squad should have been addressed..he had (as did Txixi) at least from half way through last season when he was announced to look at this and come up with answers....they failed on the defensive side hugely. and we are relying on ageing fullbacks and an injury prone centre half........that lies firmly at their feet as these were areas of the squad that should have been addressed first and foremost but we spend time looking at and obtaining "ones for the future"...and while i don't disagree with any of those purchases none of them were a priority.......

Pep isn't going to abandon his ethos and suddenly manage like Simeone or someone. Equally you're basically implying we are lucky against sides like Hull because they don't hassle and press us? What about against good sides like Arsenal and United where we've won? The reality is this team is probably performing to its current capabilities.

I don't agree the team is performing to the best of its abilities at all.....we did that vs barca in the second half because Pep changes his ethos a little. I would expect the very best manager in the world to be able to adapt to all opponents (we could still do that and lose btw).....Our results suggest we are flat track bullies to use a term......some teams just come and don't even bother trying to attack but any team that does causes us huge problems and even in the first half vs Hull they had chances...defesively we are an absolute shambles whereas every other team that we play against are defensively at least solid at times. Liverpool yesterday were comfortable in defence for most of the second half yesterday as were spurs ........At no point in the league have we looked that way in any game...we are wide open and any team brave enough to have a go stands a good chance of getting a result against us.

At the start of the season most people didn't expect us to walk the league and that's because when you look at our side against the other teams there's not much in it. Us and Chelsea have the best attacking talent imo but we certainly don't have close to the best defensive talent. Especially given our injuries. Then you have to factor in the fact Chelsea and Liverpool don't have Europe and are younger and fitter.

I never expected us and don't expect us to walk the league...Chelsea are attacking well and are able to also keep clean sheets.....they have a good balance.......we simply don't . Conte has had the same amount of time as Pep (maybe less if again we factor into it that everyone knew Pep was on his way int he middle of last season (did conte have as much warning/knowledge?)....the injuries and age....again we knew about this...we dint plan for it but everyone knew Kompany was a risk and Sergio is a injure risk as well...w are lucky he hasn't been injured (and unlucky that he has been stupid enough o get himself banned)

Pep seems to have done himself no favours by starting the season so well. We are going through a very mixed patch and will probably only finish 3rd or 4th but hopefully in the summer Pep will address the problems he's seen first hand. We aren't going to magically transform overnight.

I don't expect at all transformation over night.......but this is the best coach in the world and a few tweeks in just some games could have a much improved effect.......what is certain is that we go into those reverse fixtures with Spurs, liverpool and maybe one or two more with he same set up/tactical approach (and i don't mean simple 4-5-1'a/3-5-2's etc but what he is actuallyasking the players to do and where he expects them to be and the roles he is asking them to perform) the results will be the same. That to me wouldn't be the sign of someone who can claim to be the best tactical manager in the world....