Liverpool Takeover (Merged)

[Blue Mooner]

Re: Liverpool Takeover Imminent?

The crux of the legal case is whether this is deemed "a fair and reasonable" offer and therefore whether the formal undertaking given when Broughton was brought on board means that H&G no ceded their discretion in respect of the offer. I was very skeptical about the involvement of law and I was wrong about that (PrestwichBlue was spot on). But H&G will certainly lose.

This details the key facts - <a class="postlink" href="http://tinyurl.com/36z5m5m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tinyurl.com/36z5m5m</a>

The concept of "fair and reasonable" is well understood in the City. Given that Liverpool has been for sale for many months in a very public environment and that this offer is something around 2x current and 2011 revenues and the business is and will be a loss maker and a huge capex requirement is anticipated for the stadium, the offer looks fair. This was my view on valuation from a couple of months ago <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184307&p=3484839#p3484839" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184307&p=3484839#p3484839</a>

We can assume there have been no other offers at this level or above that have managed to demonstrate bona fides and proof of funds. On a peer group comparison of any public traded football clubs £250m is a fair price. And looking at comparable football deals from the last 3-5 years this is also a fair price - turnover multiples are a key metric and 2x is generous.

Accordingly, the deal is recommendable and the offer fair and reasonable. I can only assume that H&G will try and demonstrate some outlandish growth plans that show the club will generate huge revenues and profits "just around the corner". But without an offer around to validate their point of view its very hard to argue this is not fair.

BTW, this deal doesn't change the overall landscape for LFC. This is a financial acquisition and one that will be funded by debt (albeit in the holding company and not directly on LFCs assets). They still need to improve the squad, buy a new stadium and fund working capital (they will make big losses in 2011 and 2012 (assuming no Champions League)). If Liverpool are celebrating they should only with caution.

To be fair in one respect comparing them on the basis of other clubs is not really realistic as a benchmark. Its reasonable to say that Liverpool stand apart in terms of global reach and size on a par with the Rags. A simple look on facebook tells you that they have 2.6 million fans on there only surpassed by the rags. Spurs by comparison have just under 170,000 which tells you that Liverpool are on a different level from most other football clubs, and that rightly the potential for extra revenue is therefore much bigger.

If they do get sold for £300million then that really does stiff the rags and the Glazers with their valuation constantly bandied about at the £1billion mark

What I'm really surprised at is that H&G signed an undertaking that they relinquish control of the sale of the club to renew their debt. I'm amazed that there wasn't some clause that states it must be sold at a fair value. Lawyers normally go through these things with a fine tooth comb.

If the above is the case then it tells you that all the other stuff about previous bids from Kenny Huang was obviously bullsh*t as Huang stated that he pulled out due to an unrealistic valuation. If Broughton was in charge why would he have done this ?

Something doesn't add up.

Irrespective, if this sale does go through it strikes me as out of the frying pan into the fire. They've been going on for years that they didn't want the Yanks and what have they got ? Yanks !!! YCMIU

It also strikes me that this will be another leveraged buy out so how does this in anyway advance things ?

From a purely conspiracy angle could it be possible that H&G are simply using a fellow sports business associate to front up what is effectively the re-financing of the club ?

 

[Cambridgeblue]

Re: Liverpool Takeover Imminent?

Just come back from a nice walk in the country with the dog and to be honest I feel a bit sorry for H and G, after all they own the club and yet have been seemingly outmanoeuvred by a right fecking devious bastards in Broughton.

What does strike me now though is that there is a slim possibility that in announcing the deal and the values now Broughton may open himself up to a legal challenge if H and G can show that they had a better deal in place (or even refinancing in the pipeline) at a higher value.

In an open auction which Liverpool were no doubt part of why would they announce these things PRIOR to the owners consent? And why have they gone public in the way they have until they could force the issue once RBS called in the loans?

Surely there is a case of the board not putting the owners/shareholders first as they should?

Broughton has said this morning that there is/was a written undertaking that H&G would not reject a reasonable offer. As Broughton has delivered what he (and I FWIW) beleives is that offer, he is challenging H&G to breach the undertaking. The written undertaking effectively consented to Broughton to focus purely on delivering a reasonable (as opposed to a H&G satisfactory) offer. In the absence of a higher offer that is funded today, H&G will lose in court in my mind.

Agree with your assessment... but I do think H&G will go to court purely because they have nothing to lose (save costs). Will be intersting to see how this pans out Ifor one will be checking the court listings and will try to squeeze in if at all possible.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Henry will borrow the cash from his own company to fund the deal, and not go to the banks for the cash apparently.

 

[inbetween]

Re: Liverpool Takeover Imminent?

The crux of the legal case is whether this is deemed "a fair and reasonable" offer and therefore whether the formal undertaking given when Broughton was brought on board means that H&G no ceded their discretion in respect of the offer. I was very skeptical about the involvement of law and I was wrong about that (PrestwichBlue was spot on). But H&G will certainly lose.

This details the key facts - <a class="postlink" href="http://tinyurl.com/36z5m5m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://tinyurl.com/36z5m5m</a>

The concept of "fair and reasonable" is well understood in the City. Given that Liverpool has been for sale for many months in a very public environment and that this offer is something around 2x current and 2011 revenues and the business is and will be a loss maker and a huge capex requirement is anticipated for the stadium, the offer looks fair. This was my view on valuation from a couple of months ago <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184307&p=3484839#p3484839" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=184307&p=3484839#p3484839</a>

We can assume there have been no other offers at this level or above that have managed to demonstrate bona fides and proof of funds. On a peer group comparison of any public traded football clubs £250m is a fair price. And looking at comparable football deals from the last 3-5 years this is also a fair price - turnover multiples are a key metric and 2x is generous.

Accordingly, the deal is recommendable and the offer fair and reasonable. I can only assume that H&G will try and demonstrate some outlandish growth plans that show the club will generate huge revenues and profits "just around the corner". But without an offer around to validate their point of view its very hard to argue this is not fair.

BTW, this deal doesn't change the overall landscape for LFC. This is a financial acquisition and one that will be funded by debt (albeit in the holding company and not directly on LFCs assets). They still need to improve the squad, buy a new stadium and fund working capital (they will make big losses in 2011 and 2012 (assuming no Champions League)). If Liverpool are celebrating they should only with caution.

To be fair in one respect comparing them on the basis of other clubs is not really realistic as a benchmark. Its reasonable to say that Liverpool stand apart in terms of global reach and size on a par with the Rags. A simple look on facebook tells you that they have 2.6 million fans on there only surpassed by the rags. Spurs by comparison have just under 170,000 which tells you that Liverpool are on a different level from most other football clubs, and that rightly the potential for extra revenue is therefore much bigger.

If they do get sold for £300million then that really does stiff the rags and the Glazers with their valuation constantly bandied about at the £1billion mark

What I'm really surprised at is that H&G signed an undertaking that they relinquish control of the sale of the club to renew their debt. I'm amazed that there wasn't some clause that states it must be sold at a fair value. Lawyers normally go through these things with a fine tooth comb.

If the above is the case then it tells you that all the other stuff about previous bids from Kenny Huang was obviously bullsh*t as Huang stated that he pulled out due to an unrealistic valuation. If Broughton was in charge why would he have done this ?

Something doesn't add up.

Irrespective, if this sale does go through it strikes me as out of the frying pan into the fire. They've been going on for years that they didn't want the Yanks and what have they got ? Yanks !!! YCMIU

It also strikes me that this will be another leveraged buy out so how does this in anyway advance things ?

From a purely conspiracy angle could it be possible that H&G are simply using a fellow sports business associate to front up what is effectively the re-financing of the club ?

I don't think its going to be another leveraged deal as Broughton isn't stupid he has detailed this deal would wipe out the majority of the clubs debt, a debt to cover a debt would still = debt as these Americans have the kicks for loading the debt onto club holding companies and not themselves.

What interests me is what these new owners plan to do about a new stadium and whatnot, from my understanding they have only put up the money for the sale+clearing of debt and a small amount of operating capital nothing else. I think this deal is a temporary one aimed at stabilising the club and a sale will be made down the line obviously for a handy profit, American owners have zero passion for football so unless they plan to turn it into the Liverpool Red Socks its unlikely they'll hang onto it for long.

As for United they are a whole different ballpark, with the level of debt they are in come bond maturity date things are going to get very very ugly.

 

[Q8-Blue]

So livermoo is going to be a nice little cash cow for Henry and his Boston Redsox, since i'm living in the US i might as well bet on the sox for the next world series since henry going to use livermoos earning to invest in the Sox.
On a more serious note seems like this Henry got a bargain deal with liverpool and will probably stabilize the club and then resell for a profit once the clubs finances are stable. Am predicting a mid-table season for livermoo. You should go check out RAWK they're puzzled why no Oil Magnate or Oligarch is willing to buy gods gift on earth for football. Delusional Idiots.

 

[NorCalBlue]

So livermoo is going to be a nice little cash cow for Henry and his Boston Redsox, since i'm living in the US i might as well bet on the sox for the next world series since henry going to use livermoos earning to invest in the Sox.
On a more serious note seems like this Henry got a bargain deal with liverpool and will probably stabilize the club and then resell for a profit once the clubs finances are stable. Am predicting a mid-table season for livermoo. You should go check out RAWK they're puzzled why no Oil Magnate or Oligarch is willing to buy gods gift on earth for football. Delusional Idiots.

I assume they would be horrified if that happened, considering all the criticism they've aimed at us....

 

[Q8-Blue]

So livermoo is going to be a nice little cash cow for Henry and his Boston Redsox, since i'm living in the US i might as well bet on the sox for the next world series since henry going to use livermoos earning to invest in the Sox.
On a more serious note seems like this Henry got a bargain deal with liverpool and will probably stabilize the club and then resell for a profit once the clubs finances are stable. Am predicting a mid-table season for livermoo. You should go check out RAWK they're puzzled why no Oil Magnate or Oligarch is willing to buy gods gift on earth for football. Delusional Idiots.

I assume they would be horrified if that happened, considering all the criticism they've aimed at us....

Horrified, they want it they just don't want to bring themselves up to admit it. Go on and check their thread they moaning on why Henry isn't willing to bring himself to investing more on the team in terms of transfers, all he's commited himself to is clearing livermoos debt. As many here have said probably will be looking to sell the club at a profit.

 

[bluespana]

A lot of misinformation and naivety in this thread. This isn't about John Henry's wealth. It's an investment group, like ADUG. The three principal characters being John Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino. Lucchino is an interesting character as he's invested in many American sports and has opened two stadiums with success, also has a number of championship rings from those different sports. Werner is a TV big shot who has invested in sports for years and Henry has some dosh too and plenty of American sports ownership experience.

They have had great success in sports and have spent more than enough to be competitive but there key to success seems to be hiring the right people for the job. They are not likely to rely on nepotism and black magic but look for the candidate with the greatest potential and hire him no matter what. I wouldn't be surprised if they went for Mourinho ASAP knowing it would bring success and piss off their rivals. I hope the deal with LFC falls through.

PS. Whoever mentioned they've only spent 50 million is way off the mark.

The Boston Red Sox - $960 million, 2 Championship Wins
Tied with New York with two championships this decade is New York's biggest rival, the Boston Red Sox. After more than eight decades without a championship, the Sox finally vanquished the "Curse of the Bambino", and captured the World Series in 2004. That season, the Sox spent $125 million on a bunch of "idiots", who shocked the baseball world by coming back from a 3-0 deficit in the ALCS to beat the hated Yankees, eventually steamrolling the St. Louis Cardinals on their way to the World Series championship. Big Papi, Manny, and the Sox repeated the feat in 2007, sweeping the Colorado Rockies to take their second championship in four years with a payroll of $143 million that year. Boston has spent approximately $960 million over the last 10 seasons, roughly $480 million per championship win.

 

[Anonymous]

Why do people keep quoting the "success" of some obscure American football team as the blueprint for running an English Premier league football club?

 

[simon23]

ok...i dont understand any of the legal/financial stuff on this thread

all i need to know is are liverpool going to get substantial transfer funds and other monies out of this, enough for them to start rebuiding their team and to start competing again for the top4?