TCIB
Well-Known Member
It say's a lot about the cultish mentality when you are second guessing if they really are a fan for telling it how it is.
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Liverpool Thread 2014/15
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It say's a lot about the cultish mentality when you are second guessing if they really are a fan for telling it how it is.
gordondaviesmoustache
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Liverpool's history is like a millstone round the club's neck that is getting heavier with each passing year.
m7mcfc
Well-Known Member
The days of Sammy Lee scoring 35yrd screamers and liverpool winning every week are long gone happiest day 2013/14 when they collapsed against Palace deluded feckers the lot of them. The shite they chat on Rawk about us is beyond comprehension. Just going to have a look over there to see if Heysel has been mentioned this week...probably not.
TCIB
Well-Known Member
Liverpool's history is like a millstone round the club's neck that is getting heavier with each passing year.
Very much so, it is a bit like "the one ring" they think it is precious and good to have this locked mentality but the truth is ihas held them back if anything.
It certainly does not allow for objectiveness which in turn is closely linked with progress or at least change possibly for the better.
Some of those rawk lads are younger than my socks so can't possibly have the genuine affiliation teh old timers do. They simply toe the line, in fact i think rawk is actually a borg ship floating around the skies above anfield.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
It's a really difficult one for the club and its owners to manage.Very much so, it is a bit like "the one ring" they think it is precious and good to have this locked mentality but the truth is ihas held them back if anything.
It certainly does not allow for objectiveness which in turn is closely linked with progress or at least change possibly for the better.
Some of those rawk lads are younger than my socks so can't possibly have the genuine affiliation teh old timers do. They simply toe the line, in fact i think rawk is actually a borg ship floating around the skies above anfield.
They will see the value in promoting the club's history (or at least the parts of it that are commercially beneficial) and they are correct to do that (from a business point of view). It's the club's best selling point to the wider world. There's no doubt, however, that this narrative does inhibit the club's ability to cope with the footballing world today. It is a suffocating presence that imposes itself on every aspect of the club. It's what players talk about when they sign and something they are constantly reminded of throughout their time at the club. I doubt there's another club, even united, where former players play such a part in the operation of the club and have such an imposing, almost haunting influence.
I'm not sure there's a solution tbh. The club's 'istree certainly can't and won't be ignored for as long as it acts as a catalyst for shirt sales, but as time marches on and that glorious fifteen year window becomes increasingly less relevant and impressive, it will continue to tighten round the club's neck. Acting as a unfavourable barometer to the club's enduring decline.
It's not going to be very pretty, in all likelihood. As we know only too well, the first three decades of perennial and chronic underachievement are definitely the hardest.
It's a really difficult one for the club and its owners to manage.
They will see the value in promoting the club's history (or at least the parts of it that are commercially beneficial) and they are correct to do that (from a business point of view). It's the club's best selling point to the wider world. There's no doubt, however, that this narrative does inhibit the club's ability to cope with the footballing world today. It is a suffocating presence that imposes itself on every aspect of the club. It's what players talk about when they sign and something they are constantly reminded of throughout their time at the club. I doubt there's another club, even united, where former players play such a part in the operation of the club and have such an imposing, almost haunting influence.
I'm not sure there's a solution tbh. The club's 'istree certainly can't and won't be ignored for as long as it acts as a catalyst for shirt sales, but as time marches on and that glorious fifteen year window becomes increasingly less relevant and impressive, it will continue to tighten round the club's neck. Acting as a unfavourable barometer to the club's enduring decline.
It's not going to be very pretty, in all likelihood. As we know only too well, the first three decades of perennial and chronic underachievement are definitely the hardest.
I dont think that their history has been their selling point to the world, GDM. Their USP had been 'the miracle' of Istanbul and the cult (for the lack of a better word) of Gerrard and unfortunately, Hillsborough (but to be fair, they haven't pursued it as much as the other two. Hillsborough is only used as a talking point by the fans themselves). In my corner of the world, I've not met a single Liverpool supporter who supported them before 'that night in Istanbul'; there may be some of them that did but I doubt they're more than a small handful. If you ask the question, "why do you support Liverpool?" out here, the answer to it would be a toss up between Istanbul and Gerrard with a some of them maybe even saying that its because of Gerrard at Istanbul. Nobody would tell you its because of the club's history.
What they have lost is a marketable player which has a unique quality. Gerrard was marketed on the back of his 'loyalty'; no one was bothered enough to check why refused to move to Chelsea when he did. They dont have a player who can sell shirts. They had Torres and Gerrard until now. I've seen a few Coutinho and Sterling shirts around but neither of them can appeal to the audience as much as Torres and Gerrard did. I'll give you an example: we had a public screening here of the United vs Liverpool 3-0 game in December and for every 50 Liverpool shirts I saw, 30-35 had Gerrard's name on them and the others were blank. There were only a handful of Suarez's shirts and 1 each of a Sterling and a Coutinho shirt.
The target audience and market around here is teenagers to 30 year olds with the 30 year old themselves being the ones who started watching the Premier League as teenagers 12-15 years ago. These people need some swagger to be associated with a club for them feel like supporting it; United, Arsenal, Chelsea and more recently, City can provide it some form or the other. Liverpool until could provide it in the form of Gerrard as 'Captain Fantastic' and the 'loyal one club man'. Can they provide it now? I dont think so.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
You make some interesting and doubtless valid points, but Liverpool's presence as a footballing force predates Istanbul, as, it should be pointed out, does Gerrard's (first team) Anfield career by some six (ish) years. Doubtless both those factors significantly fueled Liverpool's levels (and type) of support, but they were a leading European and global presence for some time before 2005. One hand fed the other, I guess.
I dont think that their history has been their selling point to the world, GDM. Their USP had been 'the miracle' of Istanbul and the cult (for the lack of a better word) of Gerrard and unfortunately, Hillsborough (but to be fair, they haven't pursued it as much as the other two. Hillsborough is only used as a talking point by the fans themselves). In my corner of the world, I've not met a single Liverpool supporter who supported them before 'that night in Istanbul'; there may be some of them that did but I doubt they're more than a small handful. If you ask the question, "why do you support Liverpool?" out here, the answer to it would be a toss up between Istanbul and Gerrard with a some of them maybe even saying that its because of Gerrard at Istanbul. Nobody would tell you its because of the club's history.
What they have lost is a marketable player which has a unique quality. Gerrard was marketed on the back of his 'loyalty'; no one was bothered enough to check why refused to move to Chelsea when he did. They dont have a player who can sell shirts. They had Torres and Gerrard until now. I've seen a few Coutinho and Sterling shirts around but neither of them can appeal to the audience as much as Torres and Gerrard did. I'll give you an example: we had a public screening here of the United vs Liverpool 3-0 game in December and for every 50 Liverpool shirts I saw, 30-35 had Gerrard's name on them and the others were blank. There were only a handful of Suarez's shirts and 1 each of a Sterling and a Coutinho shirt.
The target audience and market around here is teenagers to 30 year olds with the 30 year old themselves being the ones who started watching the Premier League as teenagers 12-15 years ago. These people need some swagger to be associated with a club for them feel like supporting it; United, Arsenal, Chelsea and more recently, City can provide it some form or the other. Liverpool until could provide it in the form of Gerrard as 'Captain Fantastic' and the 'loyal one club man'. Can they provide it now? I dont think so.
Either way, as you say, Gerrard's gone now and Istanbul was over a decade ago.
Fuck me, time doesn't half fly :-(
superseiyan
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The target audience and market around here is teenagers to 30 year olds with the 30 year old themselves being the ones who started watching the Premier League as teenagers 12-15 years ago. These people need some swagger to be associated with a club for them feel like supporting it; United, Arsenal, Chelsea and more recently, City can provide it some form or the other. Liverpool until could provide it in the form of Gerrard as 'Captain Fantastic' and the 'loyal one club man'. Can they provide it now? I dont think so.
Which is why we have to sign better. It's all well and good having an overall strategy, but having a star can have other benefits.
And about this "ethos" stuff, it can be suffocating, I think it makes average players shit (likes of Downing, Adam and Lambert while no world beaters by any means, have been significantly worse at Liverpool than elsewhere).
Some of this "ethos" stuff was at play during the Palace game when the team clearly went through all sorts of contortions to do everything through and for Gerrard (the right way to go about it would've been upping work-rate and intensity within a normal game plan, but that's another story).
But having a bonafide star has the opposite uplifting effect from the suffocating "ethos" stuff. Mind you this is easier said than done.
I honestly wondered if it was you; giving it large with some considerably, well-reasoned trolling!That is such a rational and exceptional post that I vigorously doubt that they are a Liverpool fan.
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