Loch Ness monster exists

Sigh said:
Damocles said:
Sigh said:
Really? Cite the Article and clause.

Isn't it in the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment?

Fraid not. It isn't anywhere in the Constitution. It's made-up out of whole cloth. Pure fantasy.

It relies on a letter from Thomas Jefferson to some Baptists, written after the adoption, and after initial interpretation by the boot-strapping SCOTUS. The only thing the establishment clause forbids is the establishment (erection) of a national "church", that is, the first amendment is directed at CONGRESS, not the several states, it is a FEDERAL prohibition. To see how it was understood one must observe the behaviour of SCOTUS and the states and Congress in the first few decades after the adoption.

The current use of the establishment clause as a tool to prohibit all interaction between government and religion at all levels (thanks to the suprious doctrine of incorporation where the firewalls directed toward congressional action are turned against the states themselves) of government is a study in positivist-legal sophistry and the centralizing, imperial tendancy inherent in man. Other classics are the "right to privacy" and the black hole that is the commerce clause which have swallowed up just about everything by the will of a few men (in all areas of politics, law and economics) because they will it to be so.

The establishment clause was first emptied of its public meaning, before being filled-up with an private one. Yet the text remains the same. A fine study indeed in why WRITTEN constitutions are not what they are cracked-up to be. The problem is, when one wants to change the law, one is supposed to change the law...EXPLICITLY, i.e. by the amendment process...open, transparent etc. That is the way it was meant to be done. Rather, thanks to the Supreme Court deciding by itself it is the sole and final arbiter of the meaning of the supreme law, the people now have secret law and personal opinions masquerading as public law, that is, operating "under colour of law".

Marbury v Madison is first-semester law school stuff and a fine example of a metastasizing judicial coup-d'etat as has ever been seen.

There is ever a move to strip the supreme court of it's appelate jurisdiction and limit it explicitly to its orginal jurisdiction. That would help.

The bottom line is this: if a school board in up-state New York want to use textbooks that revere Richard Dawkins as the saviour of man whilst simultaneously attacking all belief in super-nature, that is between the school board, local electors, and the Constitution of the State of New York. It is nothing to do with anyone else. Similarly, if a school board in the upper peninsula of Michigan wants to use text-books that use Augustine and Aquinas as base-lines, that is of no concern to a rigorous atheist in San Diego for whom the Constitution of Michigan is as relevant as the contents of my wife's panties. That is the way it is supposed to be and was meant to be. Live and let live, with a minimum uniformity at the federal level and almost all federal law actually directed AT the federal government telling it what IT cannot do.

Hmm...either way, Americans seem to have an almost horrifying obsession with their "founding fathers" and what their intentions for the country were. The US is a whole society built on deification, whether that deity be Jesus Christ, Thomas Jefferson or Michael Jordan.
 
Damocles said:
Youngsters will be told that if it can be proved that dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as man, then Darwinism is fatally flawed.

I....umm...what?

Or more to the point, why is Darwinism dead if dinosaurs and man walked the earth at the same time?

I'll admit that I'm not even sure what they mean as "Darwinism".

-- Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:51 pm --

This is a dinosaur:

snowyowl.gif

I agree; thought the exact same thing as soon as I read the article.

If anything the Loch Ness Monster idea adds credence to Darwins theories, surely?
 
cup-o-rage.jpg


Atheists assemble !

Really though, thats not so bad considering they first teach kids they are going to burn in hell forever and they must give themselves to a malevolent, openly jealous, capricious, fickle, bloodthirsty entity their is not a scrap of proof that exists.
 
mackenzie said:
I agree; thought the exact same thing as soon as I read the article.

If anything the Loch Ness Monster idea adds credence to Darwins theories, surely?

Hmm..I'm not sure. It's an interesting question at least.

If we ignore the fact that Loch Ness was carved by a glacier 10,000 years ago (thus 65 million years AFTER the mentioned Plesiosaur went extinct), then having a 65m year old creature that has natural forcings around it in a lake in Scotland wouldn't fit into the general theory of evolution.

It would be expected to have evolved from the standard Plesiosaur into something more fitting to the Scottish environment and particularly Loch Ness. Being stuck underneath a glacier as part of a few Ice Ages may have forced it to adapt to less sunlight, a much colder environment than Plesiosaur ever faced and somehow evolved the neck muscles to reach its head out of the water.

If a completely intact Plesiosaur was found, then it would certainly put a dent in our understanding of evolution.

However, if one were trading mythological beasts as evidence for scientific theory, then I am starting a movement to classify The Abominable Snowman and BigFoot as evidence of human evolution as part of the Great Ape genus.
 
Damocles said:
mackenzie said:
I agree; thought the exact same thing as soon as I read the article.

If anything the Loch Ness Monster idea adds credence to Darwins theories, surely?

Hmm..I'm not sure. It's an interesting question at least.

If we ignore the fact that Loch Ness was carved by a glacier 10,000 years ago (thus 65 million years AFTER the mentioned Plesiosaur went extinct), then having a 65m year old creature that has natural forcings around it in a lake in Scotland wouldn't fit into the general theory of evolution.

It would be expected to have evolved from the standard Plesiosaur into something more fitting to the Scottish environment and particularly Loch Ness. Being stuck underneath a glacier as part of a few Ice Ages may have forced it to adapt to less sunlight, a much colder environment than Plesiosaur ever faced and somehow evolved the neck muscles to reach its head out of the water.

If a completely intact Plesiosaur was found, then it would certainly put a dent in our understanding of evolution.

However, if one were trading mythological beasts as evidence for scientific theory, then I am starting a movement to classify The Abominable Snowman and BigFoot as evidence of human evolution as part of the Great Ape genus.

Are you Mister Spock ?
 
I thought it was widely known that it was an elephant swimming and the photos taken where of the trunk sticking out of the water. At the time of the original photos a famous travelling circus had stopped nearby and were allowing the elephants to swim in the loch.....
 
The Flash said:
Hamann Pineapple said:
JoeMercer'sWay said:
tragic, how can we possibly develop and progress as a species when we corrupt our future generations like this?

I seriously believe there is a deep rooted mental problem with people who continually want to teach children these fairy tales. What are they trying to hide ?

It's the US Southern Bible Belt. They also claim the earth is only 4,000 years old. Science was invented by Beelzebub and is to be damned!



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
BulgarianPride said:
How does a Loch Ness monster fit into creationism?

They think that anything that casts doubt on evolution automatically makes their theory more true. They look at things as a war, where one side wins and the other loses. They have no other way of processing events.

In reality, if evolution were completely and unanimously disproven tomorrow, creationism is still twaddle.
 

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