London bound Air India 787 Dreamliner crashes at Ahmedabad

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Then there is a "basic design fault" with every single aeroplane in the sky. If an aircraft suffers an engine fire on departure, the last thing the crew wants is fuel continuing to be pumped to said engine so there has to be the ability to cut the fuel off.

Each engine has an independent emergency T-handle which shuts off fuel, and in most cases the ancillary engine systems such as electrical generators, hydraulic valves and bleed air systems. Pulling the T-handle also arms the fire extinguisher.

The primary fuel valve switches are gated, so it takes a physical and conscious movement to operate them. However, you would think that there would be some form of safety interlock that prevents fuel valve (HP fuel cock) being shut off unless the throttle is set to idle, independent of switch position.

 

[yerwot?]

the first cockpit recording on the internet.... had the response to "why did you switch off" was "i've had enough"....since then, it is now " I didn't". If he didn't, then air-travel as we know it will be changed for the foreseeable future. Passengers boycotting this aircraft would bankrupt airlines, manufacturers who supply components, engine-makers even airports. Airbus is already at full capacity and would take years to fill the gap if/when Boeing goes down. As always, the public are totally reliant on the integrity of the investigators, the way the outcome is interpretated is also crucial, the overwhelming majority of the public are swayed by headlines and not details. Suicide is a verdict that fulfills damage limitation to businesses/shareholders, the fact it might be correct this time only time will tell. Millions of uneventful flights with no reports of mechanical switches moving without human input cannot be ignored, as is the fact that hundreds of pilots are turning up for work to fly these planes on an hourly basis. Fasten your seatbelts, major turbulence we cannot avoid lies ahead...

 

[hampshireblue]

Even with an engine fire I don't think they'd be cutting the fuel off so soon after rotation, fairly certain I've read before that at that point in the flight it's safer to gain altitude (not sure the exact height) then fiddle with the fuel cut off switches so early (chance they cut off the wrong one and as we've seen you're f****d)

Hence, why it's the first thing on the checklist AFTER confirming which engine the problem is on. Where's Chicagoblue when we need him?

 

[west didsblue]

I still don't think you would want to cut the engines just after you "Rotated" though.

All the circumstances will be looked at in detail and lessons will be learnt that may change the design of certain aircraft but one thing I can guarantee is that the means for a pilot to cut off fuel to an engine quickly will not be removed.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Hence, why it's the first thing on the checklist AFTER confirming which engine the problem is on. Where's Chicagoblue when we need him?

I've been on check flights on multi-engine aircraft where a major engine fault has been simulated. I've also been in helicopters when the pilot has simulated a double engine failure, but that's another story.

From memory, the first check is to confirm indications, then, if necessary, set the throttle(s) to idle before shutting off the HP fuel cock and then re-assessing indications before deciding the next course of action. These kinds of scenarios are practiced extensively in the simulator.

All the circumstances will be looked at in detail and lessons will be learnt that may change the design of certain aircraft but one thing I can guarantee is that the means for a pilot to cut off fuel to an engine quickly will not be removed.

There will always be an emergency T-handle type system which is independent of any other engine controls.

 

[Strangerepublic]

In my opinion it was deliberate. The Captain was nearing retirement and lived with his ageing father (no mention of wife or children) perhaps he thought he had nothing to live for. Bloody selfish act if that is the case.

If that was the case, and it was intentional, calling it selfish is a huge understatement. Not a believer in God and religion, but he will burn in hell if hell exists.

 

[manimanc]

Is it pilot Steve on YouTube (I think that's his name) who has said in a recent video that the fuel cutoff switches on the dreamliner need to operated manually and that they are spring loaded and need to placed in the indents, (much like going from 2nd to 3rd gear in a car, that kind of motion)

He said the only theory he could offer was mistakenly done or intentionally done as the above explanation rules out mechanical failure.

If it was mechanical the dreamliners worldwide would be grounded. The fact they are still flying points towards only one explanation as to why it crashed.

 

[Uptop]

Is it pilot Steve on YouTube (I think that's his name) who has said in a recent video that the fuel cutoff switches on the dreamliner need to operated manually and that they are spring loaded and need to placed in the indents, (much like going from 2nd to 3rd gear in a car, that kind of motion)

He said the only theory he could offer was mistakenly done or intentionally done as the above explanation rules out mechanical failure.

If it was mechanical the dreamliners worldwide would be grounded. The fact they are still flying points towards only one explanation as to why it crashed.

Its maybe more similar to going from 1st to reverse, you need to lift a spring loaded jacket on the switch that locks it in place and then pull it down into a slot, each engine has its own switch that this needs to be done, it is impossible to accidently flip them.

As you say, it was either deliberate or some sort of brain going into autopilot fuckup where he did the wrong procedure without thinking what he was doing and was too late to correct, i would guess more likely it was a deliberate shutdown.

 

[remember arthur mann]

Hence, why it's the first thing on the checklist AFTER confirming which engine the problem is on. Where's Chicagoblue when we need him?

Probably 36,000 ft.

 

[Toney’s bookie]

PS. apart from confirming which engine has the problem, cutting the fuel flow is the very FIRST thing on the checklist.

That’s not correct.

The actions for an engine failure or fire are

1. Autothrottle arm switch off (affected side)
2. Thrust lever to idle (affected side)
3. Fuel control switch to cutoff (affected side)
4. Engine fire switch pull (affected side)

However, you would think that there would be some form of safety interlock that prevents fuel valve (HP fuel cock) being shut off unless the throttle is set to idle, independent of switch position.

This is more or less how Embraer aircraft are designed. The fuel can only be switched off if the thrust levers are actively selected to idle first, as they would be once parked and at the gate - or actioning an appropriate checklist.