tidyman said:There's no such thing as a perfectly fair system. And it's pointless making it more complicated.
Any season ticket holder can get tickets for the vast majority of away games if they want. If someone starting from scratch went to every away game they could for the next ten years, they'd be more or less guaranteed a ticket for every game anyway after that, without changing things.
It's as fair as it can be in my opinion.
jockblue said:de niro said:jockblue said:There is an issue here - whilst those with the loyalty points call others JCLs and they should wait their turn - well, how would that happen?
If there were only 10 away tickets to every match, then the top 10 loyalty point holders would take them every time. No 11 would be just as keen to get an away ticket but would NEVER get one. Don't you see that can't be right.
The best way to keep rewarding those who are loyal, but have some glimmer of hope for those building up points is to drop off the 11th year of loyalty - so the points total on your account represents the last 10 years matches - this won't stop those who currently get tickets from getting them, but allows a slow burn of new folk also able to get tickets.
Many other clubs do this - don't see the objections really, even from those who are affected.
read my post again.
I went to my first game in 1965. I was a jcl, I was 11 and had no chance of affording or obtaining an away ticket. I HAD TO WAIT MY TURN. slow, very slow but eventually I had enough tokens to go to some away games, not though for the Newcastle game that saw us become champions. people who did get tickets for that were going way before I even set foot in Maine road. whilst I wouldn't of cared had I got a ticket over a long standing blue that would have been plain wrong. of course now we have the loyalty points system no need for all that token shit, but the theory is the same. if we now change the system its one in the eye for those who were going way before any of the fans now wanting to see big games even set foot in to eastlands.
the glimmer of hope you ask for is the same glimmer I had all those years ago. its called patience.
de niro - I have read your post, and would ask that you read mine again....
The amount of tickets available to away fans is considerably reduced from when you had your "waiting phase". The "waiting in turn" you refer to isn't working as it's the same people who are eligible first and will always get the tickets, hence widening the gap still further. There isn't a mechanism for them to build up enough loyalty points to have a chance of joining that elite, no matter how keen they were to go. I've been a regular ST holder for 30 years or so, go to maybe 5-10 aways a year (but less now) and know that with my 9k loyalty points, I've no chance of a ticket to matches at say OT or big Euro aways. And I think I'm probably in the top half of loyalty point holders. I don't consider myself a JCL. Yet I can't get tickets for many aways I'd like to go to. I dont think I have an automatic right, but the way the scheme works is starting to put an artificial barrier in place on some of these games, which would be a shame. Dont get me wrong, the Loyalty scheme's great - it just needs a bit of tweaking. People with solid 10 year records will still be ahead of newcomers but it allows people to have a chance.
Tonster said:jockblue said:de niro said:read my post again.
I went to my first game in 1965. I was a jcl, I was 11 and had no chance of affording or obtaining an away ticket. I HAD TO WAIT MY TURN. slow, very slow but eventually I had enough tokens to go to some away games, not though for the Newcastle game that saw us become champions. people who did get tickets for that were going way before I even set foot in Maine road. whilst I wouldn't of cared had I got a ticket over a long standing blue that would have been plain wrong. of course now we have the loyalty points system no need for all that token shit, but the theory is the same. if we now change the system its one in the eye for those who were going way before any of the fans now wanting to see big games even set foot in to eastlands.
the glimmer of hope you ask for is the same glimmer I had all those years ago. its called patience.
de niro - I have read your post, and would ask that you read mine again....
The amount of tickets available to away fans is considerably reduced from when you had your "waiting phase". The "waiting in turn" you refer to isn't working as it's the same people who are eligible first and will always get the tickets, hence widening the gap still further. There isn't a mechanism for them to build up enough loyalty points to have a chance of joining that elite, no matter how keen they were to go. I've been a regular ST holder for 30 years or so, go to maybe 5-10 aways a year (but less now) and know that with my 9k loyalty points, I've no chance of a ticket to matches at say OT or big Euro aways. And I think I'm probably in the top half of loyalty point holders. I don't consider myself a JCL. Yet I can't get tickets for many aways I'd like to go to. I dont think I have an automatic right, but the way the scheme works is starting to put an artificial barrier in place on some of these games, which would be a shame. Dont get me wrong, the Loyalty scheme's great - it just needs a bit of tweaking. People with solid 10 year records will still be ahead of newcomers but it allows people to have a chance.
I'm afraid that's not true and the argument you can't catch up isn't right and is argued down easily because even last season and for every season nearly half of the away games went down to all seasoncard holders and many of those to open sale.
That's how you get your points total up, there's no secret to it, go to the games, not just the big and popular ones. As half the games were open to every seasoncard holder ANY seasoncard holder could have caught up with many above them as not everyone was buying the tickets, hence open sale.
In the years before we were successful apart from OT virtually every away game went to open sale. There are not fewer available tickets now than previous, the 3K rule has been in place for 10 yrs, it's just that more people now fancy the bigger games and don't think they should have to wait. So all those people who went in the shit times should now miss out?
Tonster said:jockblue said:de niro said:read my post again.
I went to my first game in 1965. I was a jcl, I was 11 and had no chance of affording or obtaining an away ticket. I HAD TO WAIT MY TURN. slow, very slow but eventually I had enough tokens to go to some away games, not though for the Newcastle game that saw us become champions. people who did get tickets for that were going way before I even set foot in Maine road. whilst I wouldn't of cared had I got a ticket over a long standing blue that would have been plain wrong. of course now we have the loyalty points system no need for all that token shit, but the theory is the same. if we now change the system its one in the eye for those who were going way before any of the fans now wanting to see big games even set foot in to eastlands.
the glimmer of hope you ask for is the same glimmer I had all those years ago. its called patience.
de niro - I have read your post, and would ask that you read mine again....
The amount of tickets available to away fans is considerably reduced from when you had your "waiting phase". The "waiting in turn" you refer to isn't working as it's the same people who are eligible first and will always get the tickets, hence widening the gap still further. There isn't a mechanism for them to build up enough loyalty points to have a chance of joining that elite, no matter how keen they were to go. I've been a regular ST holder for 30 years or so, go to maybe 5-10 aways a year (but less now) and know that with my 9k loyalty points, I've no chance of a ticket to matches at say OT or big Euro aways. And I think I'm probably in the top half of loyalty point holders. I don't consider myself a JCL. Yet I can't get tickets for many aways I'd like to go to. I dont think I have an automatic right, but the way the scheme works is starting to put an artificial barrier in place on some of these games, which would be a shame. Dont get me wrong, the Loyalty scheme's great - it just needs a bit of tweaking. People with solid 10 year records will still be ahead of newcomers but it allows people to have a chance.
I'm afraid that's not true and the argument you can't catch up isn't right and is argued down easily because even last season and for every season nearly half of the away games went down to all seasoncard holders and many of those to open sale.
That's how you get your points total up, there's no secret to it, go to the games, not just the big and popular ones. As half the games were open to every seasoncard holder ANY seasoncard holder could have caught up with many above them as not everyone was buying the tickets, hence open sale.
In the years before we were successful apart from OT virtually every away game went to open sale. There are not fewer available tickets now than previous, the 3K rule has been in place for 10 yrs, it's just that more people now fancy the bigger games and don't think they should have to wait. So all those people who went in the shit times should now miss out?
the originalkippaxman said:Are people still arguing about this. It really isn't difficult go to the shit games and eventually you will earn the right and the points to go to the category A games.
If you don't want to put the time and money into going to the likes of Sunderland, West Ham, Norwich or even Spurs mid week, don't expect the Barca and Swamp tickets.
de niro said:the originalkippaxman said:Are people still arguing about this. It really isn't difficult go to the shit games and eventually you will earn the right and the points to go to the category A games.
If you don't want to put the time and money into going to the likes of Sunderland, West Ham, Norwich or even Spurs mid week, don't expect the Barca and Swamp tickets.
but but but its not fair, I wanna see the big games NOW, why should you get to all the big games, I'm as big a blue as you. I watched loads on motd whilst you were travelling back from places like Brighton.
the originalkippaxman said:de niro said:the originalkippaxman said:Are people still arguing about this. It really isn't difficult go to the shit games and eventually you will earn the right and the points to go to the category A games.
If you don't want to put the time and money into going to the likes of Sunderland, West Ham, Norwich or even Spurs mid week, don't expect the Barca and Swamp tickets.
but but but its not fair, I wanna see the big games NOW, why should you get to all the big games, I'm as big a blue as you. I watched loads on motd whilst you were travelling back from places like Brighton.
What makes me laugh is those that keep going on about the points system have never been to the shit away grounds. Surprisingly they end up being some of the best away days and laughs of the Season.