Loyalty Points - Time For Change?

[SteWadda]

the only people who want to change the system are those who don't have the points to get to the big games. what about the people who gathered their points in early "big" games like a cup match v Leeds, or away to macc? sorry but you have to wait your turn. they did. because I had given up our season tickets the last year at maine road we came in to this stadium with 0 points. ok we did the home games (my god those stuart pearce days) but we missed out on loads of aways, we had to wait our turn. once an away game came to open sale or low points we went, that's if I didn't get them off here which I had to so many times. so now 13000 points later we have earned our place of the queue for any game going. all that time, money and effort shouldn't be tossed aside because someone comes along mard arsing that its not fair. it was fair when I had a 100 points verses the guys who had say 2k and its fair now. its called loyalty.

Did you bother reading the suggestion in the OP or just go off the title?

He's not suggesting getting rid of loyalty points, simply adjusting the system so that the kids have a chance of catching up if they put in the same effort you did. You still go to the majority of games so would stay at the top of the list. However, there is a discussion to be had over whether someone who used to do all the games but now only does a few is more loyal than someone who wasn't even born when we played Macc, but for 10 years has done every game they possibly could.

Also, the current system relies on seasoncards not transferring. The only way a younger generation could catch up is if the older generation stop going and that they don't then pass their seasoncards on for someone else to use. I don't believe there's any way to police this, but a 10 year rolling system removes some of the need to.

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

I don't think you can put kids in that catagory. They couldn't go when they weren't alive you sure you read the OP?

 

[Pelly Greeny]

Have I got this right?
It's possible that kids get a ticket when their parent reaches the points criteria? That means that some snotty nosed little brat who's been to eight games in his first and only season as an SC holder could get a ticket whereas a guy who's been going for years misses out?

 

[Bill]

Did you bother reading the suggestion in the OP or just go off the title?

He's not suggesting getting rid of loyalty points, simply adjusting the system so that the kids have a chance of catching up if they put in the same effort you did. You still go to the majority of games so would stay at the top of the list. However, there is a discussion to be had over whether someone who used to do all the games but now only does a few is more loyal than someone who wasn't even born when we played Macc, but for 10 years has done every game they possibly could.

Also, the current system relies on seasoncards not transferring. The only way a younger generation could catch up is if the older generation stop going and that they don't then pass their seasoncards on for someone else to use. I don't believe there's any way to police this, but a 10 year rolling system removes some of the need to.

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

I don't think you can put kids in that catagory. They couldn't go when they weren't alive you sure you read the OP?

of course they can't but being born is the same as being a "new blue", you could be "born" at 18 and you start from there to bulid your points up. I am warning people now that any changes will lead to a ballot, just like they have at the rags. watch the money people be "very lucky" when that comes about.

 

[its a Barm]

It will never be fair to everyone, but for me i think its the best it can be.

 

[SteWadda]

Have I got this right?
It's possible that kids get a ticket when their parent reaches the points criteria? That means that some snotty nosed little brat who's been to eight games in his first and only season as an SC holder could get a ticket whereas a guy who's been going for years misses out?

What have people got against kids going to the match?

 

[GXCity]

the only people who want to change the system are those who don't have the points to get to the big games. what about the people who gathered their points in early "big" games like a cup match v Leeds, or away to macc? sorry but you have to wait your turn. they did. because I had given up our season tickets the last year at maine road we came in to this stadium with 0 points. ok we did the home games (my god those stuart pearce days) but we missed out on loads of aways, we had to wait our turn. once an away game came to open sale or low points we went, that's if I didn't get them off here which I had to so many times. so now 13000 points later we have earned our place of the queue for any game going. all that time, money and effort shouldn't be tossed aside because someone comes along mard arsing that its not fair. it was fair when I had a 100 points verses the guys who had say 2k and its fair now. its called loyalty.

Did you bother reading the suggestion in the OP or just go off the title?

He's not suggesting getting rid of loyalty points, simply adjusting the system so that the kids have a chance of catching up if they put in the same effort you did. You still go to the majority of games so would stay at the top of the list. However, there is a discussion to be had over whether someone who used to do all the games but now only does a few is more loyal than someone who wasn't even born when we played Macc, but for 10 years has done every game they possibly could.

Also, the current system relies on seasoncards not transferring. The only way a younger generation could catch up is if the older generation stop going and that they don't then pass their seasoncards on for someone else to use. I don't believe there's any way to police this, but a 10 year rolling system removes some of the need to.

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

But I already have 12k points so a new system wouldn't affect me or benefit me. I actually would stand to lose if my '10 year rolling' plan was implemented. However, as I would continue to go I would stay near the top. No one can catch me as I would still have access to more points than those on lower points than me due to my higher points total. Lower points holders can't buy for OT, Barca away etc. so you always have the opportunity to stay at the top. The reason I see an issue is that the gap between young fans and us 'older' high points guys can never be bridged. Therefore as time goes on the gap gets bigger. What happens to the younger ones 5 or 10 years down the line. I might then have 25k points and a 7 year old will have none. It will be just a bunch of OAP's going on Euro aways!

 

[Lrrr]

If you look how many away games go down to low points or open sale, look how many cup games don't sell out until a day or two before the match then you can see that the 'hardcore' who go to every match is probably not as many as you think. There are quite a few lads I know who have started to miss more and more games due to family commitments and cost of tickets and travel, then there are some who have gave up on a few away domestic games in favour of European games. People will naturally drift away from the away scene as their circumstances change. Only a few will go from teenage years to their senior years whilst attending nearly every game. Therefore, given time everyone has the chance to catch up and get themselves in the 'top' band of supporters. Just remember it won't happen overnight, big aways may be missed but eventually it can/will happen.

 

[Colins Bellend]

Took a while this thread, I expected as soon as Burnley had been promoted

 

[blue5ter]

Did you bother reading the suggestion in the OP or just go off the title?

He's not suggesting getting rid of loyalty points, simply adjusting the system so that the kids have a chance of catching up if they put in the same effort you did. You still go to the majority of games so would stay at the top of the list. However, there is a discussion to be had over whether someone who used to do all the games but now only does a few is more loyal than someone who wasn't even born when we played Macc, but for 10 years has done every game they possibly could.

Also, the current system relies on seasoncards not transferring. The only way a younger generation could catch up is if the older generation stop going and that they don't then pass their seasoncards on for someone else to use. I don't believe there's any way to police this, but a 10 year rolling system removes some of the need to.

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

But I already have 12k points so a new system wouldn't affect me or benefit me. I actually would stand to lose if my '10 year rolling' plan was implemented. However, as I would continue to go I would stay near the top. No one can catch me as I would still have access to more points than those on lower points than me due to my higher points total. Lower points holders can't buy for OT, Barca away etc. so you always have the opportunity to stay at the top. The reason I see an issue is that the gap between young fans and us 'older' high points guys can never be bridged. Therefore as time goes on the gap gets bigger. What happens to the younger ones 5 or 10 years down the line. I might then have 25k points and a 7 year old will have none. It will be just a bunch of OAP's going on Euro aways!

To answer your question, what happens is that at some stage, people with a lot of points relinquish their season card, because they die, move away, become too old to get to the game, financial circumstances change, etc. Just as their is a waiting list for season tickets which gets fulfilled when others give up theirs. People gradually move up the queue

In the current system, someone that goes to a high percentage of away and cup games will actually fairly quickly catch up with someone that's been a season ticket holder for a few more years but rarely goes to games other than the home league ties included within the ST

You'll never get away from the fact that there is no perfect system of how points are allocated and whatever the system is, some people will buy strategically to 'play the system' and others won't. But to change from one not bad but imperfect system to another not bad but equally imperfect system is the worst solution of all, especially to those who have been influenced historically on the assumption the current system would stay in place, eg paying for platinum for extra points that with a different system, may suddenly become irrelevant

What there is no getting away from however is that Platinum is horrid and the one area of pricing that seems at odds with the rest of the strategy which is as good as you could hope for in the current climate. I am lucky enough to be able to afford platinum - I have a reasonable income and no dependants. But I'm still not comfortable with it as a principle, despite the fact that I'd be lower down the queue if it didn't exist.

I recognise the ability to sell up to 6x per year on viagogo is a more meaningful benefit than some of the others but the reality is, I'd be amazed if the vast majority of platinum holders don't do it primarily for the double points and wouldn't go platinum if it wasn't for that benefit (I'm of course prepared to stand corrected if I'm wrong.) That to me is totally wrong as a basic principle. It means the club can artificially claim STs cost less than they do for many (most ? what %age of STs are platinum - do we know ?) and people feel unfairly pressured into going platinum. The sooner they stop it, the better

 

[Bill]

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

But I already have 12k points so a new system wouldn't affect me or benefit me. I actually would stand to lose if my '10 year rolling' plan was implemented. However, as I would continue to go I would stay near the top. No one can catch me as I would still have access to more points than those on lower points than me due to my higher points total. Lower points holders can't buy for OT, Barca away etc. so you always have the opportunity to stay at the top. The reason I see an issue is that the gap between young fans and us 'older' high points guys can never be bridged. Therefore as time goes on the gap gets bigger. What happens to the younger ones 5 or 10 years down the line. I might then have 25k points and a 7 year old will have none. It will be just a bunch of OAP's going on Euro aways!

To answer your question, what happens is that at some stage, people with a lot of points relinquish their season card, because they die, move away, become too old to get to the game, financial circumstances change, etc. Just as their is a waiting list for season tickets which gets fulfilled when others give up theirs. People gradually move up the queue

In the current system, someone that goes to a high percentage of away and cup games will actually fairly quickly catch up with someone that's been a season ticket holder for a few more years but rarely goes to games other than the home league ties included within the ST

You'll never get away from the fact that there is no perfect system of how points are allocated and whatever the system is, some people will buy strategically to 'play the system' and others won't. But to change from one not bad but imperfect system to another not bad but equally imperfect system is the worst solution of all, especially to those who have been influenced historically on the assumption the current system would stay in place, eg paying for platinum for extra points that with a different system, may suddenly become irrelevant

What there is no getting away from however is that Platinum is horrid and the one area of pricing that seems at odds with the rest of the strategy which is as good as you could hope for in the current climate. I am lucky enough to be able to afford platinum - I have a reasonable income and no dependants. But I'm still not comfortable with it as a principle, despite the fact that I'd be lower down the queue if it didn't exist.

I recognise the ability to sell up to 6x per year on viagogo is a more meaningful benefit than some of the others but the reality is, I'd be amazed if the vast majority of platinum holders don't do it primarily for the double points and wouldn't go platinum if it wasn't for that benefit (I'm of course prepared to stand corrected if I'm wrong.) That to me is totally wrong as a basic principle. It means the club can artificially claim STs cost less than they do for many (most ? what %age of STs are platinum - do we know ?) and people feel unfairly pressured into going platinum. The sooner they stop it, the better

its an odd one, most people I see at aways are not arsed about, platinum this, loyalty that, they just go to watch city. as they have done way before points were even thought of. however yes I'm sure people do buy platinum purely to catch up. they still have to attend mind.