Loyalty Points - Time For Change?

[mostonbluemark]

I have 4 grandchildren on the waiting list and nothing would please me more than to have a family weekend away supporting City. I have 8000plus loyalty points, same as my son. I'm not a fan of changing the existing system though, even if it suited. We have what we have and i don't see the need to change it. If its one thing I drill into all my kids you only get in life that to which you are entitled or work for. Sorry OP. Do enjoy the updates on the Campus et al.

 

[CatMan]

The fairest way is all those that leave the ground early must go out through a gate which automatically takes points off their card.
All those that join the cup schemes and just dont bother going to the early rounds should be branded with a hot poker so we can they can be sent to Coventry at the next game. A bit like the lepers in the Roman times.

Just browsing and couldnt resist.

A good idea nonetheless.

 

[CatMan]

I think the rolling 10 year thing is a good idea.

The top points holders who still do the majority of games will remain at the top, but those that don't fancy the "lesser" games and just cherry pick the "big" games will start to slowly fall down the list whilst the younger ones who do every game they can will gradually work their way up.

Some will suggest that a supporter who did every game 10-15 years ago deserves the right to pick and choose games nowadays but as the OP said, there has to be some incentive for the younger generation to know they can reach the top of the ladder.

Yep. Completely Agree. Time for the old folk to move on! ;-)

 

[BringBackSwales]

I benefit from the current system - due to family responsibilities I cannot get to many away games any more, but I used to go to them all and so I was able to get tickets for the swamp and everton this year (might be a struggle next) - is it fair that I get to go to those bigger matches because I used to do all the aways v someone who did not get tickets but goes to them all now? No it probably isn't fair

 

[Ding Dong]

There's no such thing as a perfectly fair system. And it's pointless making it more complicated.

Any season ticket holder can get tickets for the vast majority of away games if they want. If someone starting from scratch went to every away game they could for the next ten years, they'd be more or less guaranteed a ticket for every game anyway after that, without changing things.

It's as fair as it can be in my opinion.

I wouldn't have even thought about change as it could affect my position. However, how could my lad ever get to my points total? I will probably be on 13.5k by the time he starts next year. I would have to stop going for 10 years before he could get to my level. He could go to every game available to him, as I will, and never get any nearer. A 10 year rolling period would still reward long term loyalty but would allow people to catch up if they put the time, effort and money into it.

It's rather like the FFP arguments - we will all argue for a system that protects ourselves

I've been a season ticket holder for more than 20 yrs. I'm on about 10k points.

I go to all the home cup games (though I didn't do the cup scheme for the league cup the season before this one rather foolishly which lost me valuable points and IIRC, there was a bonus for doing all 3 schemes which doesn't seem to exist any more ?)

I go to around 5 league away games per season, some European away games and domestic cup semis/finals.

So who is more deserving of tickets to hard to get to games - the person who goes to more away games than me each year but hasn't followed us in the lower leagues or me, going to a relatively small number of away games but having put more time & money in over the years including the gloryless ones ? I'd suggest there is no black & white answer with arguments for both

But what would really upset me is if they changed the system. We've all bought tickets influenced to one degree or another by the way the points system works. The main reason I go platinum & league cup DD scheme is to ensure I keep within spitting distance of the points requirements for the majority of games. I'd be bloody furious if the system changed as without the points for umpteen years of ST renewals, I'd be lower down the pecking order and given the choice, I'd rather not feel blackmailed into paying an extra £50 for platinum and wouldn't have done it if it weren't for my particular points scenario.

Put simply, a 10 yr rolling system would disadvantage me and I'd not have spent as much as I have historically if I knew such a system were to come in. However if that had been the system from the start, I could have made informed choices along the way

I'd also look at how many tickets are sold bypassing those who use the loyalty system before looking at how points are allocated

I am in a very similar position to you Blue.
And although I agree with most of your points I don`t agree with everything.
But one thing I certainly agree with is your last line. This really needs looking into.

Without opening up the old supporters club debate again { I`m a member by the way } Why do S.C.s get first dibs on away games ?
Surely S.C.s should only be able to mop up any tickets that go down to open sale or going to outside organizations such as Viagogo.
Before the SC massive start moaning & whinging. Most members of clubs have enough EARNED LOYALTY points to sort themselves out. But want to sit next to mates or other members with varying level of points. Therefore non members waiting for the critiera to drop miss out. We ALL know this system is often abused by corrupt commitee members or more often fellow members point whoreing.

The present system is not perfect but by shutting loop holes it will be improved. So that the more LOYAL you are the better

 

[CatMan]

The real problem with the loyalty point system is that it encourages the Points Whore; and they no well and truly who they are!

 

[kenzie115]

both. shouldn't even be up for debate. if I jumped the queue ahead of Sean or someone on 12k jumped ahead of me, in ANY new fangled system it would be totally wrong.

as I say, any changes being requested are by those who simply have not been arsed to go to the games over the years....until now. how odd.

But I already have 12k points so a new system wouldn't affect me or benefit me. I actually would stand to lose if my '10 year rolling' plan was implemented. However, as I would continue to go I would stay near the top. No one can catch me as I would still have access to more points than those on lower points than me due to my higher points total. Lower points holders can't buy for OT, Barca away etc. so you always have the opportunity to stay at the top. The reason I see an issue is that the gap between young fans and us 'older' high points guys can never be bridged. Therefore as time goes on the gap gets bigger. What happens to the younger ones 5 or 10 years down the line. I might then have 25k points and a 7 year old will have none. It will be just a bunch of OAP's going on Euro aways!

To answer your question, what happens is that at some stage, people with a lot of points relinquish their season card, because they die, move away, become too old to get to the game, financial circumstances change, etc. Just as their is a waiting list for season tickets which gets fulfilled when others give up theirs. People gradually move up the queue
In the current system, someone that goes to a high percentage of away and cup games will actually fairly quickly catch up with someone that's been a season ticket holder for a few more years but rarely goes to games other than the home league ties included within the ST

You'll never get away from the fact that there is no perfect system of how points are allocated and whatever the system is, some people will buy strategically to 'play the system' and others won't. But to change from one not bad but imperfect system to another not bad but equally imperfect system is the worst solution of all, especially to those who have been influenced historically on the assumption the current system would stay in place, eg paying for platinum for extra points that with a different system, may suddenly become irrelevant

What there is no getting away from however is that Platinum is horrid and the one area of pricing that seems at odds with the rest of the strategy which is as good as you could hope for in the current climate. I am lucky enough to be able to afford platinum - I have a reasonable income and no dependants. But I'm still not comfortable with it as a principle, despite the fact that I'd be lower down the queue if it didn't exist.

I recognise the ability to sell up to 6x per year on viagogo is a more meaningful benefit than some of the others but the reality is, I'd be amazed if the vast majority of platinum holders don't do it primarily for the double points and wouldn't go platinum if it wasn't for that benefit (I'm of course prepared to stand corrected if I'm wrong.) That to me is totally wrong as a basic principle. It means the club can artificially claim STs cost less than they do for many (most ? what %age of STs are platinum - do we know ?) and people feel unfairly pressured into going platinum. The sooner they stop it, the better

You are of course assuming that this ticket wouldn't be renewed by a different person, who would then continue to use the ticket.

Also, regarding Platinum, everyone seems to view it as paying an extra £50 for double loyalty points. I've always looked at it that if you aren't the sort of fan who wants to do away games, then you can save £50 by going Gold. City could easily have just put all the season ticket prices up by an extra £50, theoretically removing the Gold option.

 

[the originalkippaxman]

Another thread on loyalty point scheme. Nothing wrong with it. If it isn't broken don't try and fix it. Plenty of away games last year went to very low points or general sale. Don't start moaning because you want the Barcelona Away, Liverpool, United Away. Do you ground work like going to Reading away 4 days after losing the FA Cup against Wigan in the fucking pissing rain.
All of us that have 10K+ have been going when we were total fucking shite and even now you see the same faces doing the London trips such as West Ham away 5.30 on a Saturday that no other fuck wants to go to. Simple you want the points invest your own time and money and don't think that because the good years have arrived that you deserve the best tickets because you have 3 shirts and a fuck off big car sticker.

Not directed just at the OP just at all those that complain about the system.

Although De Niro didn't say as much I will. Fuck off winging and turn up to the games that you can when your tickets become available within a few years you might start to have a chance of the better tickets.

 

[chris85mcfc]

Why are people wasting their money on aways anyway?

I heard Jamie Redknapp say were shit away from home, save your money lads

 

[blue5ter]

You are of course assuming that this ticket wouldn't be renewed by a different person, who would then continue to use the ticket.

Also, regarding Platinum, everyone seems to view it as paying an extra £50 for double loyalty points. I've always looked at it that if you aren't the sort of fan who wants to do away games, then you can save £50 by going Gold. City could easily have just put all the season ticket prices up by an extra £50, theoretically removing the Gold option.

You're absolutely right in your first point and I accept there will be some that abuse the system, including renting out their ST, passing it on, etc

As for platinum, why should it be that if you want to go to lots of away games, you need to pay a £50 premium to your ST ?

Say when tickets for the PL away derby went on sale, the club said you can queue jump 3 'tiers' (for instance from being day 6 to day 3) in return for a £25 premium on the ticket price ? There would be quite rightly complete outrage - we wouldn't collectively accept the principle that the club allocates limited quantity tickets on the basis of who pays the most. So what's the difference between that example and platinum ?