Making a Murderer Part 2

[Deleted member 41424]

That has no relation to what I asked.

I asked it because I want to to answer it...

 

[Bigga]

Do you really believe that Avery left a load of blood on his sink and that as soon as he went out someone went in and took it?

Where was I referring to the blood? I was taking about the possibility of Hillegas being involved in planting the car. The blood theory is admittedly a stretch but not as much as the prosecution theory that Teresa’s throat was slit in Avery’s gaff, even though they couldn’t find any trace of her blood in there. That’s some clean-up job whichever way you look at it.

Well, it's not really a stretch when you take into account a possible sequence of events.

We know that Avery sliced his finger.

We know Brendan Dassey stated there were droplets of blood on the garage floor.

We know Brendan Dassey said Avery had called him to help with spillage on his garage floor from piercing an object.

We know there's blood in the sink. Over a relatively short period of time we know blood dries.

At no point did Brendan Dassey (before he changed his story several times) say that the spill on the floor was 'blood'.

Getting blood from the sink is not an impossibility, depending on how tidy Avery was as a person.

As a mechanic, I was assume cleaning up is the last thing you do in your day.

 

[Fame Monster]

Where was I referring to the blood? I was taking about the possibility of Hillegas being involved in planting the car. The blood theory is admittedly a stretch but not as much as the prosecution theory that Teresa’s throat was slit in Avery’s gaff, even though they couldn’t find any trace of her blood in there. That’s some clean-up job whichever way you look at it.

Even though I’d say 90% of the stuff presented by Zellner was false/unlikely/unreliable, one of the more interesting things featured was the evidence provided by the blood spatter expert in relation to the potential cast-off spatter in the boot. This suggests the murder (or at least an attack) occurred outside the trailer, with the boot absorbing the brunt of the cast off spatter or potentially, impact spatter. This sounds like credible evidence to me but not in any way exculpatory evidence for Avery because it only really pokes a tiny hole in the idea that she was attacked in the trailer which was only really advanced in the Dassey trial.

 

[Bigga]

Yeah agreed on that. Inconceivable that he cleaned up all the DNA other than his own.

The blood from the sink is key though. As is it undisputed that Averys blood is in the RAV4. So how did it get there? That’s what I’m struggling. Now that the vial of blood from season 1 is no longer under question they are hanging on it being garnered from the sink. And I can’t believe that aspect.

I believe the test for the blood taken from Avery in 1996 proved 'not present' for ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (EDTA, preservative), but expert testimony for the defence said that it was not possible to tell if the negative result meant that EDTA was not present, or if the test itself was inconclusive.

So, we're at square one on that.

 

[Bigga]

Even though I’d say 90% of the stuff presented by Zellner was false/unlikely/unreliable, one of the more interesting things featured was the evidence provided by the blood spatter expert in relation to the potential cast-off spatter in the boot. This suggests the murder (or at least an attack) occurred outside the trailer, with the boot absorbing the brunt of the cast off spatter or potentially, impact spatter. This sounds like credible evidence to me but not in any way exculpatory evidence for Avery because it only really pokes a tiny hole in the idea that she was attacked in the trailer which was only really advanced in the Dassey trial.

Doesn't logic dictate that if it was 'outside the trailer' and Avery is 'guilty', it would have to be in broad daylight with a hammer type object and the boot open?

If it was 'inside' there would be blood spatter away from the car(as in a swing or two) and not just on the inside the boot door...?

Tests for bleach on the floor, etc?

Quote from an article:

• The false conviction of Steven Avery that involved the Manitowoc Police Department could have theoretically been overturned in 1995 instead of 2003, due to the confession by the actual offender (Gregory Allen) which was passed on to officer Coburn in 1995. Despite Coburn admitting in court that this was the only time he had ever been called and informed that they had the wrong man in jail, he dismissed the suggestion and never reported it until the day after Steven Avery had been released in September 2003.
• Both Coburn and Lenz were named in the $36 million wrongful conviction suit probe by Avery in 2005. Combined, these two men found the majority of all physical evidence in the case pointing to Steven Avery.
• Then Lieutenant Lenz was one of the first people on the Avery property on November 5th when Teresa Halbach’s car was found. Despite the on-site officer claiming in court that Lenz was not there before the login sheet was started, Lenz’s name can only be found signing out on November 5th. Lenz provided two contradictory statements about when he arrived at the Avery property on November 5th, once claiming 6-7pm and then changing his story to 14:05 (25 minutes prior to the beginning of the log which began at 14:30) once it was discovered he never signed in.
• A blood sample from Steven Avery’s wrongful conviction investigation was opened illegally and without being signed out sometime before the November 5th find of Teresa Halbach’s Toyota RAV4. Although the series Making a Murderer claims the hole in the rubber is suspicious, this is actually normal procedure when putting blood into a sealed tube. The fact the evidence seal was broken without anyone having signed it out is, on the other hand, very suspicious.
• Despite the direct conflict of interest for Coburn and Lenz due to the $36 million inquiry, they were allowed to voluntarily lead the search of the Avery residence. The first evening they were not under direct supervision by the Calumet Police Department, on the 7th search of the property, Teresa Halbach’s key was suddenly discovered by Lt. Lenz in plain sight.

Not sure how anyone STILL can't think the whole thing is off.

 

[Blue Hefner]

I finished series 2 yesterday.

Re Bredan Dassey - I find it astonishing that he will be in prison for the next 30 years(at least) based on that ‘confession’ and how thier legal process works is beyond me

Re Avery - I thought the program would have shown a few more legal arguments for appeal and the reason(s) they were knocked back. Surely Bobby Dassey’s computer is grounds for a retrial? The investigation clearly wasn’t extensive and they kept the prosecutor didn’t disclose the contents

Overall, I think it’s grossly unfair both are still locked up and both will probably die there. In terms of the series, I preferred series 1

 

[Fame Monster]

Doesn't logic dictate that if it was 'outside the trailer' and Avery is 'guilty', it would have to be in broad daylight with a hammer type object and the boot open

There are lots of possibilities where it could have taken place without anyone knowing about it whether that's in his garage, behind his trailer or another point on the salvage yard. It could have been with a blunt force object or maybe another object and it seems likely that the boot was open when it happened. All-in-all though, it tells us almost nothing about who killed Teresa other than adding weight to the idea that the trailer wasn't the place/only place where she was attacked.

If it was 'inside' there would be blood spatter away from the car(as in a swing or two) and not just on the inside the boot door...?

Maybe. Depends on lots of factors though including the amount of spatter.

 

[Thorin Oakenshield]

Has anybody else been following the Chris Watts case?

 

[Blue Maverick]

Brendan is totally innocent he’s just said what they wanted him to say. I think Bobby is the murderer and has pinned it on Steven, police have helped by planting evidence, the stuff on Bobbys computer is very dodgy, hopefully if Steven gets off it will allow Brendans conviction to be quashed.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Has anybody else been following the Chris Watts case?

Just looked it up how the fuck could you do that to those little girls, he was their protector, since becoming a dad I just can’t fathom shit like this, I look at my little girl and the way she look# at me, I could never harm her, RIP little angels, I would gladly kill him if they asked me to.